Repentance?

I think we're both getting to the same place on the Theses, which is, "why?" If America is not a Christian nation (and we agree that is not, never has been) - how are we to repent corporately? Especially how are we to repent for attitudes rather than actions - attitudes which we A) don't all share and B) the people who do share them probably won't repent of anyway? I can see repenting as a nation for actions - as you said, I think all nations are responsible under a general "moral law" and I think that we are responsible to the degree of light we have gotten - but thought patterns? And with the separation of church and state, how do we decide which actions to repent? (I'd say from my Bible reading that God gets pretty ticked off with human/infant sacrifice, and if you want to talk about the idol of personal freedom... well, we have constant sacrifice on that altar, don't we?)

As an aside on God's judgement, I found on one of the fringe websites I read a very interesting list of the national disasters as directly correlated to times we were pressuring Israel to give up land. There is plenty of Biblical precedent for non-Israel national blessings as directly related to how that country TREATS Israel, so there's something to that.

For me, the point to both the pursuit of liberty and the 95 Theses are the same. We are preparing for the future. The stubborn Americans who fill up bunkers with food and water and emergency gear, who own guns and know how to hunt - those are the Americans who have some chance of surviving enough of the Tribulation to be saved. Not to mention the ones who might rebel enough against the Antichrist to give out food and water to those without the Mark. Those same stubborn Americans are going to have to give up on their patriotic idolatry - because they will become enemies of the State.

Christianity as a religion thrives on suffering. We are a brotherhood of martyrs... and Christians become diamonds under pressure and stress, dissipate in sunshine and plenty. I tend to think that Christians in other nations are MUCH closer to Jesus than I will ever be. I'm distracted by daily life, all they have is Him. I know the times when He has pressured me, I've grown spiritually.

Another aside, related... I don't think we'll all be doing the same thing in Heaven or be equal. I think we'll all be HAPPY, but I don't think we'll be equal. And I don't want to be! There is no way that I should have the eternal rewards of someone who had to watch their children die for Christ. Let them govern solar systems, and give me my oak tree to sit under and watch the world go by, give me my travel and a companion or three. When there is perfect justice, equality is not required. We will all be equally saved though. :) Ah well, trusting Him for everything, right?

Here's where I get repentance, "Thus, it is with great sadness that the endorsers of this document humbly plead with our churches to join us in repentance, turning from the United States' twisted notions of liberty, democracy and justice, from the historical misconceptions of its "Christian heritage" and from the ubiquitous greed that drives our nation. Jesus is calling his people in the United States today to grieve the sins of our nation, to return to our first love, and to once again recognize him alone as our King and the provider of our security. " I suppose this doesn't really talk about the nation as a whole, but churches individually - but... where does it say in the Bible that churches speak for nations? I don't know that my church's repentance would do much for God's view of my city, much less my nation. And until you brought this up, I'd never heard of these Theses... not well publicized.

As for Theses 18, I was trying to say that all men are free to worship whom they please - it's only that they're likely to die for it in some places/times. Even in MOST places and in MOST times. After the Rapture I think will definitely be "one of those times" for Christians, if we don't get close to it beforehand. Liberty? No, none of that. We're losing more of it day by day.

I agree with most of the rest of what you said, although of course I'm not a pacifist. :)