Misc Replies

I've been Martha-ing up myself, not to mention battling a cold. Sorry for not responding yesterday. The other part of my non-response is just that I'm really thinking about your posts... you may well have me changing my mind. And when I'm thinking, I tend to be somewhat quieter.

At any rate: Yes, I think that Christians can and should repent for the sins of their (our) nations. But - categorical sins. I can see us repenting corporately for, say, legalizing torture. Or legalized infanticide. But repenting for an attitude? Individually... yes. But not corporately. You may have me changing my mind on whether or not personal freedom constitutes a true idol... yet I think that pursuit of personal freedom was born from the protestant movement and will contribute to the success of the post-Rapture conversions/survivals.

Which brings me to my next reply - YES. I think that there will be people during the Tribulation who rebel against the AntiChrist and his rules, at least those who are converted. Revelation makes many references to Tribulation saints and during-tribulation conversions. And since they won't be able to shop or even move around freely, they'll have to be getting their food *somewhere*. Will the leaders hide under mountains? Yes. Why... we have a big ol' under-ground leader-sanctuary under Denver, don't we... hmm... Will most Tribulation saints end up martyred? Yes, I believe so. (Honestly and as an aside... I think some of my ministry is to tell folks about Jesus who will just think I'm loopy until they see the signs after the Rapture occurs).

Pursuit of personal freedom... this is a narrow road to stand on, to not fall into idolatry on either side. One of the key tenents of Protestantism is that you don't need any intermediary between you and Christ - and thus the beginnings of questioning authority, making your own decisions, etc. On the other hand, we have the sin of Pride, which is the king of all sins, on the other, making some human your idol and obeying them instead. *Traditionally* Americans have been very independent people. *Currently* I think we still THINK of ourselves that way, but are not in the least independent. We are so very comfortable in the norms, thinking outside of them is really kinda freaky. We'll grumble about the national ID, but will we get it? Probably. (And no, I don't think it's the number of the beast, I think it's a predecessor, which will somehow be insufficiently effective so AntiChrist will tell 'em to chip us for our "safety and security").

As for Iraq and Afganistan etc. I don't have an opinion. I know that sounds really odd. But I know a lot of good people, good Christians, who are serving over there and who believe in what they're doing. At the same time, our government is run by... well, Christian ladies don't use those words. What I believe is that the middleeastern mess is *inevitable* and is part of God's plan and His timetable. I believe that we're supposed to be there. Now, are we *right* to be there? Um... don't ask me!

World War 2? Yes, I think we needed to be there. I guess... I guess it would be a really nice world to live in if the Christians would refuse to fight in wars or send people to concentration camps and understand God's will and follow it rather than worrying about groceries etc. We however, are not wolves, we are sheep. As all my pastors seem to be echoing right now, sheep are stupid. People don't tend (as a group) to be much brighter. I think that serving in wars is much the same as obeying lawful authority in other ways - but again, I am not a pacifist. I interpret the not striking back instructions to be specific to persecution AS Christians. (After all, even Christ sent his apostles out with swords for protection). CS Lewis has an interesting essay on pacifism and WW2 if you're interested - he even talks about WW1 and shooting at fellow Christians and how he thought they'd laugh about it in Heaven together should they have shot one another.

But again... we come from very different backgrounds here. I live in a military town. My FIL was a Marine. My grandpa was a Marine. He lost both his brothers in WW2. My other grandpa served in the Navy for the war. My cousin is a Marine. I have a lot of personal friends in various branches of the service. I don't believe that they're dishonorable or disobeying Christ. Not for one second.

But I'm blathering ... if I've missed something, will you restate as a question, please? I'm pretty sure I have. I don't think we're in any rush, are we? I'd just as soon go over things until we reach agreement or impasse. (I know I missed a whole chunk because this was the "off the top of my head" stuff).

PS they're putting tracking chips in the new 2008 IDs that double as passports for one of the northern states here. Check myspace for link.