There's a Christian Flag?

I never knew that. I have never heard of a Christian flag, pulling a piece out of your most recent post. Tell me more. What I was referring to is that anything of the state is of this world, and is of Baal. When you bring the state into a house of worship, you are bringing in an idol, an image of Caesar, into a holy place. You are not being obedient to the words of Christ which are to render to Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's but joining the two.

This would be an example for me a prime example of idolatry. You know how many Protestants have a problem with the RCC's statues of the saints and Mary and believe that that is idolatry? I believe that is idolatry and the reasons that are given for that by Catholics are so much rationalizing. Your argument for the national flag in a church sounds exactly the same to me. Which is not to say that I don't believe that Catholics are Christians and that whole other Protestant-Catholic argument. I simply think that in this the church is very wrong. There is no state in the house of God and no citizenship possible there, but that of the kingdom of Heaven.

I have never heard of a church in Canada with a Canadian flag in it. I am not saying there are not. There probably are because of the influx of American ideas in some evangelical sectors. But to me that would be a huge no-no, in the sense of, is nothing sacred anymore? There is nothing sacred about a country and to bring an image of Caesar into the holiest place....Nope, I couldn't go for that. That strikes me as wrong, wrong, wrong.

Anyway, I thought I was the bad poster. It has been a busy couple of days. Tomorrow I have my MRI. Hopefully one way or another they will get to the bottom of whatever is wrong with me.

I was going to respond to your post about the US and Israel and the site that you linked. First of all, I would say this: if God is punishing the US, why because of Israel and not because of abortion, or the death penalty, or corporate greed, or the idol of freedom, or any number of national sins?

If I took the time, I could search for what I wanted to be true, and use the abortion statistics for that week and link it to some national disaster and say, viola, God is punishing the US for whatever it is that I believe to be true.

The problem theologically with that site is that, is the writer saying that if the US hadn't done those things, it wouldn't experience any natural phenomenon? No more earthquakes or tornadoes or hurricanes or floods? That sounds a little strange. No more weather? We are told that the rain falls on the just and unjust alike.

I am not saying that God doesn't punish nations but it seems to me that he would be more than preoccupied with the US's internal sins than its foreign policy sins at this point. Two, we are also told that in the last days there will be earthquakes, etc. in 'divers' places. This is not linked to punishment but is compared to that of a woman in labour, about to give birth and the labour pains coming more quickly. It is a general sign, not a punishment.

If these natural phenomenon are a point that God is making, then I think it is a general point, as in a we are in the last days point, not a point of specific targeting.

I don't think that God wastes his points. There is no point in making a point if it sails right over everyone's head because it is so close to just being natural. God didn't, for instance, send one plague after another on Pharaoh and then just wait for Pharaoh to get the point, even though Pharaoh was from a culture that believed in gods that regularly needed to be pacified. God sent Moses to tell Pharaoh exactly what he was being punished for. God also made the plagues very specific, like there was darkness in the land in broad daylight for the Egyptians only, while there was daylight for the Israelites. God, when he makes a point, doesn't hide his point. He caught Moses' attention with a bush that burned but was not consumed by fire.

There is another problem with the theories in that site, which is that everything is meant to bring Israel to a point of trouble, not of peace. Everything is meant to bring the nations together at Armageddon where God will judge the nations for things, including then, how they treated Israel. So God punishes the US now for what exactly? For not insisting that Israel rule from the Euphrates to the Nile, the boundary forecast in Abraham's time? If the US did that and accomplished that, would there be no end of the world? No need for Armageddon because the US would have cleaned the house for the Lord's arrival?

The whole point is that Israel is supposed to turn to the Lord, and not put their faith in their own might or the might of other nations. The whole point is that only the Lord can save Israel, if they only let him.

God also punishes Israel for being disobedient to him. How can one say that Israel's constant problems are not the result of God punishing Israel for not turning to him instead of the US? If that is the case, should the US support Israel in anything at all, if God is punishing Israel? Is the US being punished then for going against God's will if God's will is to punish Israel and the US keeps interfering and supporting Israel? It's like a 'whose on first' skit, trying to figure out where the problem is and who the bad guy is.

In the Old Testament, through the prophets, God calls Nebuchadnezzar, 'my servant,' and says that he will bring him upon Jerusalem to destroy it and says that Nebuchadnezzar is doing his will.

There are just so many problems involved in interpreting what people are being punished and which are not. It is possible to find a Biblical rationalisation for both.

Everything is prophetically foretold that Israel will not have peace until they turn to the Lord God with all their heart. The US will not save Israel. A false sense of salvation and security for Israel will come from somewhere in the form of an anti-christ. But only God himself and not a proxy will save Israel.

Is the US then that anti-Christ in that they are sponsoring peace talks? I think that this is another example of why religion and politics can't mix for a Christian. The goals are not in agreement. A secularly minded nation, with an interest in not having a world war, can't not sponsor peace talks and negotiate. A responsible nation cannot possibly wish a nuclear holocaust on the earth.

See, I don't think we know these things or are going to know them until they are here. There are devout Jews who believe that the modern state of Israel should not be supported and that there should be no state of Israel until the Lord himself sets one up. I am not sure what a country can do right politically with regards to the Bible, its prophecies and Israel. We are told to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, Psalm 122:6: Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

I feel this post is a little disjointed and I'm sorry about that. It has been one of those days.

Layla