Well... we've disposed of niceness, more or less, although we disagree. :)
To answer the "I'm not sure what you mean that there's no segregation by race but by cultural choices. Could you elaborate?"
Sure! Little difficult to explain but I will use the example of Hispanic folks in my area. (Most of the folks in my area are Hispanic). There are the folks who dress in "normal" clothes, have "normal" jobs, and speak Spanish primarily at home. No segregation that I've noticed between those folks and everyone else. There are the folks that wear gang clothes -they pretty much hang out with other gang people (duh). There are the folks who are new immigrants, who do the yucky work, and don't speak English yet - they pretty much hang out with others like themselves.
Does that make more sense? My son's three best friends are three different races. But the kids in his class that fall into the groups that self-segregate don't really hang out as much with the other kids. Of course they don't... how am I going to set up play rules with a mom when I can't talk to her? And later, when the gangbangers take over... well, I know my husband got randomly jumped walking home just for being a big white guy. It happens. /shrug.
On to the next issue... do you have one handy?
Friday, September 12, 2008
Saturday, September 6, 2008
Niceness
Sometimes I'm just plain floored because I think that yes, we do live in different worlds and have different mindsets, and I always try to be careful in the sense that people often make mistakes in assuming their "norm" is *the* norm. Some things though are seeing the glass as half full as opposed to half empty. And reading and rereading what you have to say, while there are some cultural differences, I still think it is mostly a different way of seeing the glass.
I haven't ever lived in the States for any length of time and there's only so much you can ever know about another country without having lived there, but the comments Americans living in Canada make, is that Canadians are nicer, and less aggressive, less apt to judge people by their bank accounts.
I have no particular experience to say that that is true or not true. I think Canadians are a lot more worldly in their mind-sets. Americans seem very insular and not given to seeing much beyond their borders or interests, and with an unfortunate tendency to assume the rest of the world wants what they think we should want.
Canada, on the whole, is a very politically correct nation. By politically correct, I mean that generally (there are always exceptions) we are agreed that race, religion and prejudice and hate speech are not things we want in our country. We are generally agreed that each human being has an intrinsic value, and that belief in turn is what gives rise to our social programs, such as national health care.
We work less than Americans, and pay more taxes. We don't wig out about prayer said in our government or our schools. but the nature of that prayer has evolved, mostly without much conflict, into general themes of peace, rather than focusing on that which divides people.
We also want less. We don't believe that the rights of the individual automatically take precedence over the good of society. Which isn't to say at all that we don't have bigots and racists and crime problems. We have less of them than the US, but every country in the western world has less crime than the US.
Some of these things various governments instituted long before the general population was ready for them and caused a lot of vicious debate but you see, I don't see "elitism" as a dirty word. I want people in government who are smarter than I am. I don't want someone who knows no more than me there. And as years have passed, a lot of the things the vast majority of people thought they were against, have grown to be a valued part of our society. Canada had bitter arguments about multiculturalism in the 70s and 80s, and now the children of those most enraged at the time, are learning second and third languages and participating in multicultural events and have friends of many cultures.
On the other hand, people's opinions and view of their society are often formed by their circle of acquaintances, which can skew one's impression of one's country. And I'm not entirely confident that my own view isn't skewed by my circle of acquaintances, which consists in large measure of immigrants from European countries, academics and artists, with hardly a right-winger among them. I tend to think the right-wingers are the aberration, not the norm.
Of course you will find right wingers (by Canadian standards. Our right wingers would probably be considered left wingers in the US) in rural communities or in fundamentalist churches. A lot of that is a matter of education and exposure. Bible schools are not exactly educational. But mostly it is the older generation that has found it difficult to adjust, and their time has passed, for good and ill. The children and the children's children are not the grandparents.
And I am shocked - jaw-droppingly shocked - when I run into someone who makes racists or homophobic comments. People like that are not part of my norm. But the government has also tried hard over the years to educate people against racism and racist "jokes", so I think that even among racists, people here are careful before they said anything like that.
It's not that I believe that for example, there are no racists, but rather that it has become unacceptable for hate-filled comments to be spoken. People assume racists are uneducated, stupid even. I'm cool with that. I don't believe in that kind of freedom of speech. Just by not feeling as free to speak hate, by realizing that chances are good that if you open your mouth, you are as likely as not to be told that your hate is unacceptable, hate-filled people are less likely to open their mouths. Which in turn has an impact on society as a whole.
Among educated people, or artists for example, they are as likely as not to take pride in their second-hand clothes and the small "footprint" their houses leave. It's not that there aren't people who are money or status conscious and building monster houses that are a crying shame to look at, but they are the new-money, no education people. Even they change eventually, when they are trying to get into old money clubs and realize that old money doesn't live conspicuously any more, and that old money is actually concerned about the rest of the world.
And it's not that no Canadian kid ever calls another a "fag" or a "retard" but bullying, when I was in school, was not taken seriously at all. It is now. It isn't perfect, but the more it is hammered into young minds that it isn't acceptable, the more it becomes as you say, the new "cool" but I don't see a good thing being the "new cool" being a bad thing in any way. That's how you get people to do good things. It's no different from the anti-smoking campaign, which succeeded largely in getting kids to think smoking wasn't cool. The health issue alone is never going to stop a kid from smoking if it is considered cool.
I would have shaved my head if that had been cool when I was a kid. (I realize it may be cool now but it sure wasn't when I was a teenager.)
Yes, I expect things are a bit different in California and looks, if you are an actress, are obviously going to be more important because of the nature of the profession. A writer needs a laptop, an actor needs looks - in addition to acting ability of course.
I'm not sure what you mean that there's no segregation by race but by cultural choices. Could you elaborate?
As to swearing and things like kids swearing nowadays, dropping the F-bomb, when people say now publicly words they would never have dared think, I think it's liberating. I think it's a far cry from the air kisses society matrons give each other while they rip each other to shreds behind their backs.
The same moms who in the 50s would never have thought the f-word, are also the same moms who thought blacks were good for servants, the same moms who supported segregation, the same moms who would have disowned their children for marrying outside their race. I'd way rather they let lose with an f-bomb.
I'm way more in favor of the moms who march in peace rallies and disrupt the neighborhood by bringing attention to injustice. I'm all in favour of people who catch cops on videos doing bad things instead of the 1950s way of thinking that the cops were always right.
Life was not anything more than superficially pretty for white middle class people in the days gone by. The days gone by are not the good-old-days for most other people.
When you say you are looked at differently because your car isn't washed or your waistline isn't like Barbies - well I have no doubt that there are people like that, but some of it might also be your own self-consciousness. I have about ten years on you, and I know I was more self-conscious at your age than I am now.
One thing I did notice on our recent road trip, was the large number of brand spanking new trucks and SUVs - jaw droppingly expensive, and all shiny and washed, guzzling gas like there is no tomorrow, even in the smallest one-horse towns. Saw no evidence at all of people taking the gas problem seriously. You don't see much of that here. Having a gas-guzzling, bad for the environment vehicle is embarrassing. The looks you get here are not those of admiration but of disapproval.
I'm totally okay about people doing nice things because they want to look nice even if they aren't nice people. I'd rather they were nice people but if they can't be nice because they are nice, I'm all in favor of them being nice because otherwise they get the nasty looks they've subjected others to for years.
In spite of our freezing cold winters, I gave up wearing a fur coat years ago, due to dirty looks. I should say I never wanted a fur coat to begin with but it was a gift from my husband so I wore it for a while. As someone who experiences -40 degree temperatures fairly regularly, I can say that there is no man made fabric that will keep you warm in that. It is not a matter of vanity or fashion.
However, I now only wear it to walk the dogs and sometimes if it is very cold and I have to drive many miles, I stick it in the van in case my vehicle breaks down and I have to walk or stay there the night. But I don't wear it. People wearing furs do not get admiring looks here, I can tell you. And it's really not quite fair unless the people who started the whole anti-fur movement actually live in the sort of godforsaken cold people here live in for months at a time. Every homeless person in Canada ought to have a fur coat by law. They ought to be as cheap as borscht here, as necessary as bread. (I am no fan of winter.)
I feel bad about our old van, because it is so big but my husband can no longer get into a lower vehicle. But we have only one vehicle, not two. Even so, I'm keeping an eye out for a vehicle that can hold the dogs and my husband that is less bad on gas and the environment.
And I'm mostly amazed, given how incredibly hard life is, that people we love die, sometimes terribly, and people who loved them still find enough hope in them to go on. I am moved to tears when strangers go out of their way to protect another stranger in trouble. I am moved to tears by people who are ordinary, every day people who perform every day acts of mercy and grace, going forward in hope, even when we have no direct current word from God, no visions of angels to comfort us on our darkest nights, nothing but something that may be shadows seen through a glass darkly, that people are still capable of love, of putting their lives at risk for other people, even people who have seen nothing or little of that same grace and love in their own lives.
I am so impressed by how good people are.
Layla
I haven't ever lived in the States for any length of time and there's only so much you can ever know about another country without having lived there, but the comments Americans living in Canada make, is that Canadians are nicer, and less aggressive, less apt to judge people by their bank accounts.
I have no particular experience to say that that is true or not true. I think Canadians are a lot more worldly in their mind-sets. Americans seem very insular and not given to seeing much beyond their borders or interests, and with an unfortunate tendency to assume the rest of the world wants what they think we should want.
Canada, on the whole, is a very politically correct nation. By politically correct, I mean that generally (there are always exceptions) we are agreed that race, religion and prejudice and hate speech are not things we want in our country. We are generally agreed that each human being has an intrinsic value, and that belief in turn is what gives rise to our social programs, such as national health care.
We work less than Americans, and pay more taxes. We don't wig out about prayer said in our government or our schools. but the nature of that prayer has evolved, mostly without much conflict, into general themes of peace, rather than focusing on that which divides people.
We also want less. We don't believe that the rights of the individual automatically take precedence over the good of society. Which isn't to say at all that we don't have bigots and racists and crime problems. We have less of them than the US, but every country in the western world has less crime than the US.
Some of these things various governments instituted long before the general population was ready for them and caused a lot of vicious debate but you see, I don't see "elitism" as a dirty word. I want people in government who are smarter than I am. I don't want someone who knows no more than me there. And as years have passed, a lot of the things the vast majority of people thought they were against, have grown to be a valued part of our society. Canada had bitter arguments about multiculturalism in the 70s and 80s, and now the children of those most enraged at the time, are learning second and third languages and participating in multicultural events and have friends of many cultures.
On the other hand, people's opinions and view of their society are often formed by their circle of acquaintances, which can skew one's impression of one's country. And I'm not entirely confident that my own view isn't skewed by my circle of acquaintances, which consists in large measure of immigrants from European countries, academics and artists, with hardly a right-winger among them. I tend to think the right-wingers are the aberration, not the norm.
Of course you will find right wingers (by Canadian standards. Our right wingers would probably be considered left wingers in the US) in rural communities or in fundamentalist churches. A lot of that is a matter of education and exposure. Bible schools are not exactly educational. But mostly it is the older generation that has found it difficult to adjust, and their time has passed, for good and ill. The children and the children's children are not the grandparents.
And I am shocked - jaw-droppingly shocked - when I run into someone who makes racists or homophobic comments. People like that are not part of my norm. But the government has also tried hard over the years to educate people against racism and racist "jokes", so I think that even among racists, people here are careful before they said anything like that.
It's not that I believe that for example, there are no racists, but rather that it has become unacceptable for hate-filled comments to be spoken. People assume racists are uneducated, stupid even. I'm cool with that. I don't believe in that kind of freedom of speech. Just by not feeling as free to speak hate, by realizing that chances are good that if you open your mouth, you are as likely as not to be told that your hate is unacceptable, hate-filled people are less likely to open their mouths. Which in turn has an impact on society as a whole.
Among educated people, or artists for example, they are as likely as not to take pride in their second-hand clothes and the small "footprint" their houses leave. It's not that there aren't people who are money or status conscious and building monster houses that are a crying shame to look at, but they are the new-money, no education people. Even they change eventually, when they are trying to get into old money clubs and realize that old money doesn't live conspicuously any more, and that old money is actually concerned about the rest of the world.
And it's not that no Canadian kid ever calls another a "fag" or a "retard" but bullying, when I was in school, was not taken seriously at all. It is now. It isn't perfect, but the more it is hammered into young minds that it isn't acceptable, the more it becomes as you say, the new "cool" but I don't see a good thing being the "new cool" being a bad thing in any way. That's how you get people to do good things. It's no different from the anti-smoking campaign, which succeeded largely in getting kids to think smoking wasn't cool. The health issue alone is never going to stop a kid from smoking if it is considered cool.
I would have shaved my head if that had been cool when I was a kid. (I realize it may be cool now but it sure wasn't when I was a teenager.)
Yes, I expect things are a bit different in California and looks, if you are an actress, are obviously going to be more important because of the nature of the profession. A writer needs a laptop, an actor needs looks - in addition to acting ability of course.
I'm not sure what you mean that there's no segregation by race but by cultural choices. Could you elaborate?
As to swearing and things like kids swearing nowadays, dropping the F-bomb, when people say now publicly words they would never have dared think, I think it's liberating. I think it's a far cry from the air kisses society matrons give each other while they rip each other to shreds behind their backs.
The same moms who in the 50s would never have thought the f-word, are also the same moms who thought blacks were good for servants, the same moms who supported segregation, the same moms who would have disowned their children for marrying outside their race. I'd way rather they let lose with an f-bomb.
I'm way more in favor of the moms who march in peace rallies and disrupt the neighborhood by bringing attention to injustice. I'm all in favour of people who catch cops on videos doing bad things instead of the 1950s way of thinking that the cops were always right.
Life was not anything more than superficially pretty for white middle class people in the days gone by. The days gone by are not the good-old-days for most other people.
When you say you are looked at differently because your car isn't washed or your waistline isn't like Barbies - well I have no doubt that there are people like that, but some of it might also be your own self-consciousness. I have about ten years on you, and I know I was more self-conscious at your age than I am now.
One thing I did notice on our recent road trip, was the large number of brand spanking new trucks and SUVs - jaw droppingly expensive, and all shiny and washed, guzzling gas like there is no tomorrow, even in the smallest one-horse towns. Saw no evidence at all of people taking the gas problem seriously. You don't see much of that here. Having a gas-guzzling, bad for the environment vehicle is embarrassing. The looks you get here are not those of admiration but of disapproval.
I'm totally okay about people doing nice things because they want to look nice even if they aren't nice people. I'd rather they were nice people but if they can't be nice because they are nice, I'm all in favor of them being nice because otherwise they get the nasty looks they've subjected others to for years.
In spite of our freezing cold winters, I gave up wearing a fur coat years ago, due to dirty looks. I should say I never wanted a fur coat to begin with but it was a gift from my husband so I wore it for a while. As someone who experiences -40 degree temperatures fairly regularly, I can say that there is no man made fabric that will keep you warm in that. It is not a matter of vanity or fashion.
However, I now only wear it to walk the dogs and sometimes if it is very cold and I have to drive many miles, I stick it in the van in case my vehicle breaks down and I have to walk or stay there the night. But I don't wear it. People wearing furs do not get admiring looks here, I can tell you. And it's really not quite fair unless the people who started the whole anti-fur movement actually live in the sort of godforsaken cold people here live in for months at a time. Every homeless person in Canada ought to have a fur coat by law. They ought to be as cheap as borscht here, as necessary as bread. (I am no fan of winter.)
I feel bad about our old van, because it is so big but my husband can no longer get into a lower vehicle. But we have only one vehicle, not two. Even so, I'm keeping an eye out for a vehicle that can hold the dogs and my husband that is less bad on gas and the environment.
And I'm mostly amazed, given how incredibly hard life is, that people we love die, sometimes terribly, and people who loved them still find enough hope in them to go on. I am moved to tears when strangers go out of their way to protect another stranger in trouble. I am moved to tears by people who are ordinary, every day people who perform every day acts of mercy and grace, going forward in hope, even when we have no direct current word from God, no visions of angels to comfort us on our darkest nights, nothing but something that may be shadows seen through a glass darkly, that people are still capable of love, of putting their lives at risk for other people, even people who have seen nothing or little of that same grace and love in their own lives.
I am so impressed by how good people are.
Layla
Thursday, September 4, 2008
We live in different worlds
That does it, Layla... I'm moving in! You live in such a different world.
I don't know that people are any less or more nice now than they used to be, only that people as a whole aren't very nice. We've just found new ways of being mean than we used to use. No more segregation by skin color, we do it by cultural choices. And not using fag or retard as an insult? Certainly ladies of our age don't use such words - but did *our* moms? I know my pet teenager is forever using terms like that (and getting lectured by his "auntie"). He might not care if you are actually gay - but he'll still use the word itself as an insult. (He's East Coast upper-middle-class/suburban).
Likewise, there is a LOT of label consciousness and outward perfection consiousness here - but duh, I live in SoCal. (How toned you are mostly shows your bank account, likewise your accessories). Money *always* talks! I get fishy looks for my inexpensive clothes when I go shopping outside of my immediate city, and I get fishy looks for my waistline and my car (I don't wash it much) and lots of things that I think are just fine, but folks here don't agree.
PC - I am not at all convinced that PC is anything more than euphemisms updated to the 90s and beyond. I remember my PC lecture with the syllabus hand out back in college. It's about looking like a "nice" person, whatever the current definition of "nice" is. Right now it's "PC" on the coasts/cities. Elsewhere I hear that it's still a church-going person (even if you don't actually have faith). It would be best if everyone attended church and never dreamed of using derogatory terms about anyone, ever.
I am excited about prophecy right now... :) So of course I'm extra-interested in the OT as a key to NT prophecy/timing. Take it with a grain of salt, yes, but I'll be straight up - the loaf's name is hope.
I am trying to figure out how to celebrate the OT feasts/fasts in a respectful way that's both somewhat public and between me and God. Ideas are welcome! Would you like to join me in celebrating Rosh Hashana? It's trumpets, I don't have a trumpet... but seems like the Jewish folks like to stay up and light candles and generally act like the bride waiting for her groom to show up... I feel like that. Even if my Groom doesn't show *this* year, or even if He doesn't pick a Rosh Hashana to show up on at all... I've still got my lamp full of oil.
Happy!
I don't know that people are any less or more nice now than they used to be, only that people as a whole aren't very nice. We've just found new ways of being mean than we used to use. No more segregation by skin color, we do it by cultural choices. And not using fag or retard as an insult? Certainly ladies of our age don't use such words - but did *our* moms? I know my pet teenager is forever using terms like that (and getting lectured by his "auntie"). He might not care if you are actually gay - but he'll still use the word itself as an insult. (He's East Coast upper-middle-class/suburban).
Likewise, there is a LOT of label consciousness and outward perfection consiousness here - but duh, I live in SoCal. (How toned you are mostly shows your bank account, likewise your accessories). Money *always* talks! I get fishy looks for my inexpensive clothes when I go shopping outside of my immediate city, and I get fishy looks for my waistline and my car (I don't wash it much) and lots of things that I think are just fine, but folks here don't agree.
PC - I am not at all convinced that PC is anything more than euphemisms updated to the 90s and beyond. I remember my PC lecture with the syllabus hand out back in college. It's about looking like a "nice" person, whatever the current definition of "nice" is. Right now it's "PC" on the coasts/cities. Elsewhere I hear that it's still a church-going person (even if you don't actually have faith). It would be best if everyone attended church and never dreamed of using derogatory terms about anyone, ever.
I am excited about prophecy right now... :) So of course I'm extra-interested in the OT as a key to NT prophecy/timing. Take it with a grain of salt, yes, but I'll be straight up - the loaf's name is hope.
I am trying to figure out how to celebrate the OT feasts/fasts in a respectful way that's both somewhat public and between me and God. Ideas are welcome! Would you like to join me in celebrating Rosh Hashana? It's trumpets, I don't have a trumpet... but seems like the Jewish folks like to stay up and light candles and generally act like the bride waiting for her groom to show up... I feel like that. Even if my Groom doesn't show *this* year, or even if He doesn't pick a Rosh Hashana to show up on at all... I've still got my lamp full of oil.
Happy!
Tuesday, September 2, 2008
People: better or worse?
I thought of this when I read your last post about people sucking, and the general idea that things in the world are much worse, not better than they used to be.
First of all I think a lot depends on where you are but generally, in the western world, I find people are much nicer than they used to be. Political correctness is more good than not good, when it means that kids aren't calling each other "retard" and "fag" in the interests of hurting each other's feelings. I think that people are much more sensitive than they used to be to the outsider. The more outside the "norm" you are in school, the more "in" you are these days. These days you can wear anything, and still be accepted. If you wear old clothing, they call it "vintage" and you're still cool.
When I went to school, it was all about the right label on your clothes, and the exact same clothes before they went out of style, and styles used to change every season.
It's now recognized that people aren't cookie cutter shapes and there's a recognition of people's strengths and weaknesses, and people tend to give each other a hand up more, even if that niceness is legislated by the law in such programs as Affirmative Action in the US.
I see more people going out of their way to help people who are poor than they used to, when being poor was just shy of having leprosy, as though people thought you had done something to deserve it.
Going even further back, just 45 years ago, as the speech of Obama's reminded us being the anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech, black people in the US were still little better than slaves. And not so far back from that they were slaves.
Back in 1972, the death penalty was abolished in Canada, although the last execution in Canda happened in 1962, a good ten years before it was abolished. And it hasn't been that long either since it wasn't just a a man's "right" to beat his wife whenever he felt like it.
One could argue that there are more serial killers in the world today. I think what has happened is that bad people, have become more bad, while the vast majority of people have become nicer. I don't think people suck at all. I think people are amazing.
Layla
First of all I think a lot depends on where you are but generally, in the western world, I find people are much nicer than they used to be. Political correctness is more good than not good, when it means that kids aren't calling each other "retard" and "fag" in the interests of hurting each other's feelings. I think that people are much more sensitive than they used to be to the outsider. The more outside the "norm" you are in school, the more "in" you are these days. These days you can wear anything, and still be accepted. If you wear old clothing, they call it "vintage" and you're still cool.
When I went to school, it was all about the right label on your clothes, and the exact same clothes before they went out of style, and styles used to change every season.
It's now recognized that people aren't cookie cutter shapes and there's a recognition of people's strengths and weaknesses, and people tend to give each other a hand up more, even if that niceness is legislated by the law in such programs as Affirmative Action in the US.
I see more people going out of their way to help people who are poor than they used to, when being poor was just shy of having leprosy, as though people thought you had done something to deserve it.
Going even further back, just 45 years ago, as the speech of Obama's reminded us being the anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech, black people in the US were still little better than slaves. And not so far back from that they were slaves.
Back in 1972, the death penalty was abolished in Canada, although the last execution in Canda happened in 1962, a good ten years before it was abolished. And it hasn't been that long either since it wasn't just a a man's "right" to beat his wife whenever he felt like it.
One could argue that there are more serial killers in the world today. I think what has happened is that bad people, have become more bad, while the vast majority of people have become nicer. I don't think people suck at all. I think people are amazing.
Layla
Monday, September 1, 2008
Messianic foreshadowing in the OT
Well, I have a book in that case that you might be interested in. It is called The Fall Feasts of Israel by Mitch and Zhava Glaser, published by Moody Press in 1987. If you can't find it at your library, I'll be happy to mail it to you. You can send me your address privately. It is a very interesting book.
The Glazers are Jewish Christians.
You reference Rosh Hashanah, or the Feast of Trumpets in one of your posts. Now I've always believed that in order to understand what Jesus meant - to truly understand it, one has to understand the OT, the way it was interpreted by the Jews. The themes of Rosh Hashanah are those of judgement and restoration. It's not wrong to call them a foreshadowing of the return of Christ to claim the church, in that I believe that every story in the Bible is there for a distinct purpose. I don't believe the Bible is there as an arbitrary collection of Jewish stories. The stories have a point, and as I've mentioned before, God always has a point. The point of Job, isn't to be a story of God's cruelty or mindless suffering. I think Job was a story that foreshadowed Christ - in telling how the innocent do suffer through no fault of their own.
That idea is a contradiction to "Whatsoever a man soweth so shall he reap" and shows in the example of Jesus' disciples or maybe it was just some on-lookers, who wondered about the blind man whether he was blind due to his own sin or the sins of his fathers.
That's the purpose of the story of Job - to make it clear that there isn't always an easy answer. God never really answers Job, you know, as to why these bad things happened to him. And I don't believe that God is so petty that he thinks another set of children make up for losing the first set. Job may have increased his holdings and had more children, but the scar of what happened to the first must have been there always.
Both the first and second Temples were destroyed on the exact same day - the 9th of Av, on the Jewish calendar.
I don't know that I really like the link that says Christians expect Christ's return on Rosh Hashana. Number one, Rosh Hashana is a period of time. It is certainly a metaphor for Christ's return, for all the reasons mentioned. But why not the Day of Atonement?/ Yom Kippur, whose name in English means "the day of covering or concealing?" Those raptured could be said to be covered or concealed. Or the Feast of Booths or Sukkot, which means "the season of our rejoicing." For surely Christians will rejoice in the day of Christ's return. Or the spring feasts, with their promise of new growth?
In other words, for those wanting to pinpoint a day, things get really blurry really fast. Jesus is said to have been killed before the Passover, which in turn was a remembrance of when the Angel of Death passed over the children of Israel. In retrospect, of course, that fits. But he could have died on the Day of Atonement as well, and we still would have said, "Oh, that fits. He is the scape goat."
If Jesus returns on an Easter morning, we will all say, "Oh, that fits. He rose from the dead on that day." And if on Sukkot, then that fits too.
While I appreciate the way that commentators on this remind Christians that their religion was not born in a vacuum but has a history, I really don't like the attaching of seasons or dates to it. A lot of things can fit. Who would have thought that Jonah spending 3 days in the belly of a whale would be related to the Son of Man spending 3 days in the belly of the earth?
But if on the other hand, your point is about the connection between Judaism and Christianity, Mennonites never lost sight of that connection. We always valued the OT as much as the NT. But I think it might be news to a lot of Christians. I have never been able to understand anti-semitism on the part of so-called Christians considering the Jew from Galilee they claim to follow.
Layla
The Glazers are Jewish Christians.
You reference Rosh Hashanah, or the Feast of Trumpets in one of your posts. Now I've always believed that in order to understand what Jesus meant - to truly understand it, one has to understand the OT, the way it was interpreted by the Jews. The themes of Rosh Hashanah are those of judgement and restoration. It's not wrong to call them a foreshadowing of the return of Christ to claim the church, in that I believe that every story in the Bible is there for a distinct purpose. I don't believe the Bible is there as an arbitrary collection of Jewish stories. The stories have a point, and as I've mentioned before, God always has a point. The point of Job, isn't to be a story of God's cruelty or mindless suffering. I think Job was a story that foreshadowed Christ - in telling how the innocent do suffer through no fault of their own.
That idea is a contradiction to "Whatsoever a man soweth so shall he reap" and shows in the example of Jesus' disciples or maybe it was just some on-lookers, who wondered about the blind man whether he was blind due to his own sin or the sins of his fathers.
That's the purpose of the story of Job - to make it clear that there isn't always an easy answer. God never really answers Job, you know, as to why these bad things happened to him. And I don't believe that God is so petty that he thinks another set of children make up for losing the first set. Job may have increased his holdings and had more children, but the scar of what happened to the first must have been there always.
Both the first and second Temples were destroyed on the exact same day - the 9th of Av, on the Jewish calendar.
I don't know that I really like the link that says Christians expect Christ's return on Rosh Hashana. Number one, Rosh Hashana is a period of time. It is certainly a metaphor for Christ's return, for all the reasons mentioned. But why not the Day of Atonement?/ Yom Kippur, whose name in English means "the day of covering or concealing?" Those raptured could be said to be covered or concealed. Or the Feast of Booths or Sukkot, which means "the season of our rejoicing." For surely Christians will rejoice in the day of Christ's return. Or the spring feasts, with their promise of new growth?
In other words, for those wanting to pinpoint a day, things get really blurry really fast. Jesus is said to have been killed before the Passover, which in turn was a remembrance of when the Angel of Death passed over the children of Israel. In retrospect, of course, that fits. But he could have died on the Day of Atonement as well, and we still would have said, "Oh, that fits. He is the scape goat."
If Jesus returns on an Easter morning, we will all say, "Oh, that fits. He rose from the dead on that day." And if on Sukkot, then that fits too.
While I appreciate the way that commentators on this remind Christians that their religion was not born in a vacuum but has a history, I really don't like the attaching of seasons or dates to it. A lot of things can fit. Who would have thought that Jonah spending 3 days in the belly of a whale would be related to the Son of Man spending 3 days in the belly of the earth?
But if on the other hand, your point is about the connection between Judaism and Christianity, Mennonites never lost sight of that connection. We always valued the OT as much as the NT. But I think it might be news to a lot of Christians. I have never been able to understand anti-semitism on the part of so-called Christians considering the Jew from Galilee they claim to follow.
Layla
Next up?
I can be happy with calling them "talents". :) And yes, I would call your "people come ask me for stuff" vibe to be a talent or a calling, because that gives you the opportunity to minister Christian kindness to them, which you do. Not much kindness left in this nasty ol' world... sigh.
But! Onward!! :) I am *geeeking* out on this: http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/wedding.html
and http://bibleprophesy.org/introtrumpets.htm
So what do you think?
The first link makes me all swooooony, 'cause you know I'm a very romantic girl. :) And the second link makes me EXCITED!
But! Onward!! :) I am *geeeking* out on this: http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/wedding.html
and http://bibleprophesy.org/introtrumpets.htm
So what do you think?
The first link makes me all swooooony, 'cause you know I'm a very romantic girl. :) And the second link makes me EXCITED!
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