First, on this historic and wonderful day, I want to say how proud I am today to be your neighbor. If things had gone a little better here on our end, we would have been in the States today to be a part of history. The world's thoughts and prayers are with you all and with President Obama. (It just feels so darned good to print that after eight years of the other guy).
Okay, now, ironic? I don't see it as even vaguely in the same category to put the human right of health care that is not based on an ability to pay, or taxing wealthy people so that those who have nothing at all as being on the same level as same sex marriage. One is giving people their God-given rights, and the other, the same-sex marriage deal, is imposing your values and taking away from someone else something that affects you not at all.
Even if you don't agree that same-sex marriage is some kind of God-given right and even if you feel it is an out and out sin - is it somehow more a sin than the poverty, violence and despair that afflicts the inner cities of the wealthiest nation on earth?
As far as the definition you got in civics class, are you saying that it was different from the definition on the link? I'd really like to see your definition on a link somewhere. It reminds me of when we were living in East Germany, shortly after the Wall fell and one of the most popular books in English in the university library was Elmer Gantry. If you recall, that novel was about a slime-ball preacher who was fleecing the flock to line his own pockets.
That book was the communist's definition of evil, decadent America and of Christianity. You could tell by what was underlined by students in pencil and the comments scribbled next to them for essays. I've always had the feeling that something similar must go on in American schools when it comes to socialism and communism.
As to how we got into it, well, we got into this subject not from the point of civics but rather from the point of Christian behaviour. I was highly confused by the many folks screaming "socialism" when it comes to loving their neighbor in terms of things like health care.
I would way rather pay higher taxes so that my trailer park neighbours have the same access to health care that I do, then pay lower taxes and let them do with second-hand care or none at all, or have to go into debt so far that they will never have a hope of getting out.
All of society benefits from that. There's a reason infant mortality is higher in the States than it is in countries with a socially responsible medicare system, like Canada, Germany, the United Kingdom or France.
As to your other question, no, I can't say I keep coming across the same thing. I'm not sure what you mean when God is trying to make a point. About what? What would you come across? I try to be open to whatever crosses my path in the day so that I don't miss an opportunity to be, well, nice, or something. In case someone needed an encouraging word. Sometimes I will come across insights while doing certain things, something that makes clearer a thing I've wondered about. But my prayer is always for God to make things clearer to me, to push me out of my comfort zone. Since I'm actively asking for it, I wouldn't necessary consider something along those lines to be God making a point. Aren't points usually made when you're not open to something?
My main prayers and concerns these days are all about my brother. I don't want to bother him or push him in any direction but I want to be open for him to confide in me. If my advice is asked, I give it. Otherwise I don't. He did call the other day and asked my advice regarding his marriage and I've been worried that I said all the wrong things.
Sorry if this is all over the place - I have one eye on the inaugeration and the other on this, and my mind divided between that and other things I have to do today.
Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Monday, January 19, 2009
Moderately Ironic
I am overawed at what a bad six months you've had. You are in my prayers, daily. I'm sorry to hear about the extreme cold and the well and the... egads. :( Dreadful.
As for socialism/communism, that's the definition we got in civics class. Also, I lived in China for a year as a child, having experienced socialism at first hand. (I can't call anything with a ruling class communism, no matter what *they* call it). "Study hard, or you'll end up sweeping donkey dung off the streets in -40F weather!" Believe me, pretty it was not.
Although I'm not particularly interested in civics as a conversational topic, for purposes of our discussion, let's call wall-street capitalism "hard" capitalism (I would also call pre-union industrial revolution capitalism "hard" capitalism), whereas the system of landowners set up in OT times I'd call "agrarian capitalism". I don't think we are allowed to use fellow humans in ways we wouldn't use animals in order to make more money. "Hard" capitalism may very well be anti-Christian, I will cede that point with good cheer.
However, that said... when I read the OT, what I see is that God decreed a tithe, He decreed that you should let the gleaners through, He decreed that you should be kind and generous to the widow, the orphan, the sojourner. But there was no system of police to enforce those laws. It was in faith that you brought forth your offering - and in Malachi, there is the ONE PLACE in the Bible that we are still encouraged to test God, with our giving. When you (I/they) offer to the Lord, you are blessed in return. Much of the idea is to see, as in Matthew, who is a good steward of what they've been given and who is not. (And sorry for the confusion ... "don't work/don't eat is a NT thing given by Paul to the problem of folks living off the bounty of the church).
We also see in the NT that children are to take care of their parents, that generosity to the family is the first circle of giving (ie don't send grandma to the church for groceries, you go buy them for her). Widows should be "widows indeed", and there are many places where though it enjoins generosity and sharing, that it also puts limits on it so that generosity shouldn't be abused.
So, basically - I believe that the whole system is a man and God transaction, where our right hand shouldn't know what our left hand is doing, and I don't want the government in it. (I especially do not as the government often chooses to fund things I would rather not see my money used for).
And yes, the title refers to the irony... your essay indicates that you feel we should be forced to be generous, as we can't be trusted to be on our own, and you chided me not long ago in regards to wanting to keep the definition of marriage static. 'Tis true, none shall want in the Millenial Kingdom, and there won't be gay marriage either. Perhaps we're both trying to legislate different aspects of morality? (smiles).
---------
On to something completely different. :) You know how when God is trying to make a point, you come across the same thoughts again and again from different sources? (This happens to me often).
So, first I read the book CrazyLove (you can google it, the pastor did vids for half of it). The book confronted the Western Christian with the lukewarm behavior of most churchgoers and contrasted that with the amazing love that God has for us, getting very personally convicting about being crazier in our own love for our Lord. It was very heartening to me, of course it challenged me in several areas - but I got a lot out of it.
Then yesterday in sermon, my pastor went over the first half of Daniel chapter 9, and discussed contrition, repentance, and praying for mercy. He prayed the prayer of Daniel, modified for the US - as he sees the same sins of Israel pre-Babylonian captivity in our fair land. (And who does not?)
I'm feeling rather like the church (or at least the church I have contact with) is being chivvied to a plane where we realise how close we are to full-fledged Laodecia-ness, and called to repent and beg from Christ all that He has offered us. To get closer, to be more in tune with God, to be more intense in our worship and our giving, and our serving - to be more God focused. I will say that the church I go to rocks in this regard. It's not the denomination, it's the particular mix, and a good pastor.
Have you felt any of that in your own studies lately? I know you don't go to church, but is any of that flowing towards you?
Hoping (and praying) that things are better on your end,
Hearth
As for socialism/communism, that's the definition we got in civics class. Also, I lived in China for a year as a child, having experienced socialism at first hand. (I can't call anything with a ruling class communism, no matter what *they* call it). "Study hard, or you'll end up sweeping donkey dung off the streets in -40F weather!" Believe me, pretty it was not.
Although I'm not particularly interested in civics as a conversational topic, for purposes of our discussion, let's call wall-street capitalism "hard" capitalism (I would also call pre-union industrial revolution capitalism "hard" capitalism), whereas the system of landowners set up in OT times I'd call "agrarian capitalism". I don't think we are allowed to use fellow humans in ways we wouldn't use animals in order to make more money. "Hard" capitalism may very well be anti-Christian, I will cede that point with good cheer.
However, that said... when I read the OT, what I see is that God decreed a tithe, He decreed that you should let the gleaners through, He decreed that you should be kind and generous to the widow, the orphan, the sojourner. But there was no system of police to enforce those laws. It was in faith that you brought forth your offering - and in Malachi, there is the ONE PLACE in the Bible that we are still encouraged to test God, with our giving. When you (I/they) offer to the Lord, you are blessed in return. Much of the idea is to see, as in Matthew, who is a good steward of what they've been given and who is not. (And sorry for the confusion ... "don't work/don't eat is a NT thing given by Paul to the problem of folks living off the bounty of the church).
We also see in the NT that children are to take care of their parents, that generosity to the family is the first circle of giving (ie don't send grandma to the church for groceries, you go buy them for her). Widows should be "widows indeed", and there are many places where though it enjoins generosity and sharing, that it also puts limits on it so that generosity shouldn't be abused.
So, basically - I believe that the whole system is a man and God transaction, where our right hand shouldn't know what our left hand is doing, and I don't want the government in it. (I especially do not as the government often chooses to fund things I would rather not see my money used for).
And yes, the title refers to the irony... your essay indicates that you feel we should be forced to be generous, as we can't be trusted to be on our own, and you chided me not long ago in regards to wanting to keep the definition of marriage static. 'Tis true, none shall want in the Millenial Kingdom, and there won't be gay marriage either. Perhaps we're both trying to legislate different aspects of morality? (smiles).
---------
On to something completely different. :) You know how when God is trying to make a point, you come across the same thoughts again and again from different sources? (This happens to me often).
So, first I read the book CrazyLove (you can google it, the pastor did vids for half of it). The book confronted the Western Christian with the lukewarm behavior of most churchgoers and contrasted that with the amazing love that God has for us, getting very personally convicting about being crazier in our own love for our Lord. It was very heartening to me, of course it challenged me in several areas - but I got a lot out of it.
Then yesterday in sermon, my pastor went over the first half of Daniel chapter 9, and discussed contrition, repentance, and praying for mercy. He prayed the prayer of Daniel, modified for the US - as he sees the same sins of Israel pre-Babylonian captivity in our fair land. (And who does not?)
I'm feeling rather like the church (or at least the church I have contact with) is being chivvied to a plane where we realise how close we are to full-fledged Laodecia-ness, and called to repent and beg from Christ all that He has offered us. To get closer, to be more in tune with God, to be more intense in our worship and our giving, and our serving - to be more God focused. I will say that the church I go to rocks in this regard. It's not the denomination, it's the particular mix, and a good pastor.
Have you felt any of that in your own studies lately? I know you don't go to church, but is any of that flowing towards you?
Hoping (and praying) that things are better on your end,
Hearth
Wednesday, January 14, 2009
Definitions of socialism and communism
Sorry to have been absent so long. I can't say this year is off to a good start. The broken artesian well was capped successfully, but there is a break in the pipe that Trenching Guy #1 broke, and right now, with windchills that are reaching -50C (yep, you read that right) it isn't possible to fix it. And my horses broke out of their pasture. Since I am not sure how - all I have seen is rabbit tracks over the fence line, they are in the barn. Of course, with weather like this, they'd be in the barn anyway but I have to carry water several times a day from the house as I have no water in the barn due to the break in the pipe.
Have I ever mentioned that I hate winter??? Can I repeat that just for the satisfaction of it: I HATE winter.
First of all, I have never heard socialism or communism defined in quite the way you do. Some of it may be a matter of choice of words. So in order that we both know what the other is talking about this is my definition and understanding of both socialism and communism.
One of the main mistakes you make, is the idea that there is no private income or jobs or businesses under socialism. Not true as the link should make clear. Socialism is the next evolution up from capitalism. Capitalism is necessary as a step up from feudalism but for a society to stop at capitalism is to refuse to evolve any further. Socialism has nothing at all to do with individuals not working because everything is just given to them.
We have seen the failure of communism Soviet-style, and this market crash thing which was based on a free capitalist market, was caused precisely because the US government did not have proper controls in place on financial institutions. What is the government turning to now in order to prevent a depression? Socialism. Which does not mean that the government will take away all private business but simply that the government will regulate certain businesses which can have a national impact.
We are now paying the price for US style capitalism. Bail-outs for the big financial institutions are not about helping the rich, except insofar as those who are against the bail-outs seem to ignore the fact that it is the working stiff who suffers in the long run.
Capitalism as it has been practised in the US traditionally is in its death throes. People cannot be counted on to do the right thing, they cannot be counted on to regulate their own greed. It is a conflict of interest. Greenspan stated before the Senate, that he didn't regulate banks and whatnot because he thought their own capitalist sense of self-preservation would stop them from going as far as they did.
Canada and other nations, are not in the same predicament as the US because we never had that silly idea that banks can regulate themselves. There is a fall-out and loss of jobs world-wide because markets are interlinked
When you talk about how in socialism people are "forced" to give part of their hard-earned goods to "the government," you say that as thought that is a bad thing. In an ideal world, a communist world, people would do good things because they are good. That is not the case with this current, fallen world. Obviously this is a large subject and I don't have the time to address every point, the the heart of your argument for capitalism as Biblically justified, seems undermined by Cain's comment to God, "Am I my brother's keeper?"
That seems to be the gist of the whole capitalism/socialism/communism argument. Capitalism is based on profit and on the interests of the individual, on whatever the market can bear. Capitalism doesn't care if someone dies of hunger if the going price for bread is such-and-such an amount. It is the price that determines how one acts, not morality - except as one chooses to have a conscience.
I certainly agree that one cannot force someone to actually care but you can, in some instances, by law, make sure that people do what is morally right, which is something that every society that is not in outright chaos attempts to do. Anarchy is good for no one. If God created the world, then there is a morality that permeates the world and what some Christians like to call that `God-shaped' hole inside of all of us. That is what socialism is about - you can't always wait for people to do the right thing. You have to educate them as to how to do the right thing and you have to sometimes shame them into doing the right thing.
That is why we have laws against homicide, speeding, stealing, etc. Because we don't count on all people to do good. We don't allow people to do just whatever the hell they like. that would be anarchy and anarchy was certainly not the model God puts out for us in either the NT or the OT.
The laws against homicide, speeding and stealing etc, are in place for the greater good. Making sure that there is more equality, for example, in health care, that whether you live or die is not so based on whether you can afford to live is based on the idea that we are all equal under God but the playing field is not equal. Opportunities are not equal. And sometimes bad things happen to perfectly good people through no fault of their own as the story of Job shows us.
In Ecclesiastes, we are told: There is a sore evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept for the owners thereof to their hurt.
It was not a free-for-all capitalist society that the OT or Judaism advocated. With wealth came responsibility and it was not all voluntary. The laws of tithing in the OT were not voluntary, neither was the observance of the Sabbath day as a day of rest.
As far as your quote about "whoever doesn't work, neither shall he eat," I can't think of an actual example of that being followed in the OT. Farmers were instructed to leave gleanings for the poor. Lenders were instructed to return the blankets of their debtors for the nighttime, regardless of the amount owed. Slaves had to be freed after a certain amount of years, and debts forgiven. In Leviticus 25, the idea of the rich and the poor was dealt with like this:
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family: After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him.
A family can be a family-family and it can be a nation family, as in Americans all are a nation family. There is no suggestion that everyone will ever be equal economically but there is a definite idea that families help each other, which Jesus took a step further in the story of the Good Samaritan.
These were Laws, not suggestions. Jesus also said famously that, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
He did not say this, in my understanding, because riches in and of themselves are sinful but rather because it seems to be a peculiar fact that the more people have, the less inclined they are to share. To take Paul's metaphor about Christians being part of one body and that no part ought to exalt itself above another, wealth exists to be used for the good of all humanity, not to be stored up by one individual for his or her own use.
And we are given an example - several in fact of the opposite situation, that of the capitalist rich man, Abigail's husband, who saw no reason to feed or share what he had with David's ragtag bag of outlaws. Or the rich man whom Jesus told to if he loved God, to give all that he had to the poor.
In Revelations 18 a whole society, a clearly capitalist society is warned about the consequences and the judgment that will befall it for its unabashed glorification of wealth: How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
As far as Anabaptists are concerned, they are more socialist than communist, in ideals as opposed to practice. I know of only one group that is communist and that would be the Hutterites. We do not live communally, we do not share resources or own things in common or any of that stuff. Mennonites live on privately own land, with private income from jobs that can range from farmer to politician. You could not pick your average Mennonite out of a crowd of anyone else. Most of us do not have buggies and the ones that do the horse-and-buggy thing don't own their horses in common, their barns in common or their houses in common, so there is nothing communist about them either. And I don't know of anyone who has had free labour in terms of barn-raisings.
Hutterites on the other hand, do not own anything as individuals and live in small colonies within the definition of communism. Each person contributes his or her labour and there are no individual bank accounts, only a community 'purse.' Each person gets what he needs to live in terms of a roof over his head (they don't live under one roof) and each person is expected to work at something on the colony.
Sorry if this is a little disjointed. It's such a big subject, and with everything else going on here, it's not that big on my mind.
Have I ever mentioned that I hate winter??? Can I repeat that just for the satisfaction of it: I HATE winter.
First of all, I have never heard socialism or communism defined in quite the way you do. Some of it may be a matter of choice of words. So in order that we both know what the other is talking about this is my definition and understanding of both socialism and communism.
One of the main mistakes you make, is the idea that there is no private income or jobs or businesses under socialism. Not true as the link should make clear. Socialism is the next evolution up from capitalism. Capitalism is necessary as a step up from feudalism but for a society to stop at capitalism is to refuse to evolve any further. Socialism has nothing at all to do with individuals not working because everything is just given to them.
We have seen the failure of communism Soviet-style, and this market crash thing which was based on a free capitalist market, was caused precisely because the US government did not have proper controls in place on financial institutions. What is the government turning to now in order to prevent a depression? Socialism. Which does not mean that the government will take away all private business but simply that the government will regulate certain businesses which can have a national impact.
We are now paying the price for US style capitalism. Bail-outs for the big financial institutions are not about helping the rich, except insofar as those who are against the bail-outs seem to ignore the fact that it is the working stiff who suffers in the long run.
Capitalism as it has been practised in the US traditionally is in its death throes. People cannot be counted on to do the right thing, they cannot be counted on to regulate their own greed. It is a conflict of interest. Greenspan stated before the Senate, that he didn't regulate banks and whatnot because he thought their own capitalist sense of self-preservation would stop them from going as far as they did.
Canada and other nations, are not in the same predicament as the US because we never had that silly idea that banks can regulate themselves. There is a fall-out and loss of jobs world-wide because markets are interlinked
When you talk about how in socialism people are "forced" to give part of their hard-earned goods to "the government," you say that as thought that is a bad thing. In an ideal world, a communist world, people would do good things because they are good. That is not the case with this current, fallen world. Obviously this is a large subject and I don't have the time to address every point, the the heart of your argument for capitalism as Biblically justified, seems undermined by Cain's comment to God, "Am I my brother's keeper?"
That seems to be the gist of the whole capitalism/socialism/communism argument. Capitalism is based on profit and on the interests of the individual, on whatever the market can bear. Capitalism doesn't care if someone dies of hunger if the going price for bread is such-and-such an amount. It is the price that determines how one acts, not morality - except as one chooses to have a conscience.
I certainly agree that one cannot force someone to actually care but you can, in some instances, by law, make sure that people do what is morally right, which is something that every society that is not in outright chaos attempts to do. Anarchy is good for no one. If God created the world, then there is a morality that permeates the world and what some Christians like to call that `God-shaped' hole inside of all of us. That is what socialism is about - you can't always wait for people to do the right thing. You have to educate them as to how to do the right thing and you have to sometimes shame them into doing the right thing.
That is why we have laws against homicide, speeding, stealing, etc. Because we don't count on all people to do good. We don't allow people to do just whatever the hell they like. that would be anarchy and anarchy was certainly not the model God puts out for us in either the NT or the OT.
The laws against homicide, speeding and stealing etc, are in place for the greater good. Making sure that there is more equality, for example, in health care, that whether you live or die is not so based on whether you can afford to live is based on the idea that we are all equal under God but the playing field is not equal. Opportunities are not equal. And sometimes bad things happen to perfectly good people through no fault of their own as the story of Job shows us.
In Ecclesiastes, we are told: There is a sore evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept for the owners thereof to their hurt.
It was not a free-for-all capitalist society that the OT or Judaism advocated. With wealth came responsibility and it was not all voluntary. The laws of tithing in the OT were not voluntary, neither was the observance of the Sabbath day as a day of rest.
As far as your quote about "whoever doesn't work, neither shall he eat," I can't think of an actual example of that being followed in the OT. Farmers were instructed to leave gleanings for the poor. Lenders were instructed to return the blankets of their debtors for the nighttime, regardless of the amount owed. Slaves had to be freed after a certain amount of years, and debts forgiven. In Leviticus 25, the idea of the rich and the poor was dealt with like this:
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family: After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him.
A family can be a family-family and it can be a nation family, as in Americans all are a nation family. There is no suggestion that everyone will ever be equal economically but there is a definite idea that families help each other, which Jesus took a step further in the story of the Good Samaritan.
These were Laws, not suggestions. Jesus also said famously that, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
He did not say this, in my understanding, because riches in and of themselves are sinful but rather because it seems to be a peculiar fact that the more people have, the less inclined they are to share. To take Paul's metaphor about Christians being part of one body and that no part ought to exalt itself above another, wealth exists to be used for the good of all humanity, not to be stored up by one individual for his or her own use.
And we are given an example - several in fact of the opposite situation, that of the capitalist rich man, Abigail's husband, who saw no reason to feed or share what he had with David's ragtag bag of outlaws. Or the rich man whom Jesus told to if he loved God, to give all that he had to the poor.
In Revelations 18 a whole society, a clearly capitalist society is warned about the consequences and the judgment that will befall it for its unabashed glorification of wealth: How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
As far as Anabaptists are concerned, they are more socialist than communist, in ideals as opposed to practice. I know of only one group that is communist and that would be the Hutterites. We do not live communally, we do not share resources or own things in common or any of that stuff. Mennonites live on privately own land, with private income from jobs that can range from farmer to politician. You could not pick your average Mennonite out of a crowd of anyone else. Most of us do not have buggies and the ones that do the horse-and-buggy thing don't own their horses in common, their barns in common or their houses in common, so there is nothing communist about them either. And I don't know of anyone who has had free labour in terms of barn-raisings.
Hutterites on the other hand, do not own anything as individuals and live in small colonies within the definition of communism. Each person contributes his or her labour and there are no individual bank accounts, only a community 'purse.' Each person gets what he needs to live in terms of a roof over his head (they don't live under one roof) and each person is expected to work at something on the colony.
Sorry if this is a little disjointed. It's such a big subject, and with everything else going on here, it's not that big on my mind.
Tuesday, January 6, 2009
Gracious!
I've been mulling how to respond to your post, since I live thousands of miles away, pulling up in my minivan with tea and hot breadish products is out - and that's definitely what's called for. I am so very sorry to hear what a dreadful month you've had. You certainly didn't need any more unpleasantness. Know that you are in my prayers, as always.
As for communism vs. socialism, those are pretty basic definitions. Communism is the idealistic place that socialism aims for. Socialism is the administration thereof, and involves a government. I really don't have a problem with communism - it's very sensible, and likely to be a big part of Millenial society, when we get our heads on straight and realise that everything belongs to God anyway. (or not... doesn't He say everyone gets their OWN vine and fig tree? Is possessiveness part of humanity? Something to mull on quiet days).
I think Americans don't like government, big government, because we're from pioneer blood. And we identify with cowboys and Laura Ingalls. "Do for yourself, cut your own piece of land and make something of it, by your own bootstraps" etc. Government is something of a necessary evil. And we trust our neighbors, other good Americans, but not the folks in Washington. /shrug. (grin) Americans are weird, but there you are. A part of our national character.
New things: Reading a great book called, "Crazy Love" by Francis Chan. Apparently he has a website too (which I have not yet checked out). So far so great - and I think you could really get into the book. About halfway through, and he's laying into the western church as being lukewarm... with a self-test to check ones own lukewarmness. It's a very good, very inspirational read. My sisterfriend bought it for us jointly for Christmas, gave it to me to read first. :)
I seem to be getting chivvied into thinking about God's greatness and gloriousness. I envy you, with your farm. It's far too easy for me to spend days on end without seeing any proper nature at all... one of my New Year's resolutions is to spend more time at the beach. But... do you meditate on God Himself very often? How do you get there? I find it daunting and a bit scary, like standing at the top of a cliff wearing a hanglider for the very first time. I'm sure I'll be safe, but oh my!
Hugs, prayers...
Love,
hearth
As for communism vs. socialism, those are pretty basic definitions. Communism is the idealistic place that socialism aims for. Socialism is the administration thereof, and involves a government. I really don't have a problem with communism - it's very sensible, and likely to be a big part of Millenial society, when we get our heads on straight and realise that everything belongs to God anyway. (or not... doesn't He say everyone gets their OWN vine and fig tree? Is possessiveness part of humanity? Something to mull on quiet days).
I think Americans don't like government, big government, because we're from pioneer blood. And we identify with cowboys and Laura Ingalls. "Do for yourself, cut your own piece of land and make something of it, by your own bootstraps" etc. Government is something of a necessary evil. And we trust our neighbors, other good Americans, but not the folks in Washington. /shrug. (grin) Americans are weird, but there you are. A part of our national character.
New things: Reading a great book called, "Crazy Love" by Francis Chan. Apparently he has a website too (which I have not yet checked out). So far so great - and I think you could really get into the book. About halfway through, and he's laying into the western church as being lukewarm... with a self-test to check ones own lukewarmness. It's a very good, very inspirational read. My sisterfriend bought it for us jointly for Christmas, gave it to me to read first. :)
I seem to be getting chivvied into thinking about God's greatness and gloriousness. I envy you, with your farm. It's far too easy for me to spend days on end without seeing any proper nature at all... one of my New Year's resolutions is to spend more time at the beach. But... do you meditate on God Himself very often? How do you get there? I find it daunting and a bit scary, like standing at the top of a cliff wearing a hanglider for the very first time. I'm sure I'll be safe, but oh my!
Hugs, prayers...
Love,
hearth
Tuesday, December 30, 2008
Quick Post After Long Absence
This is what has been going on in my life: 1) one of my dogs had an operation for a torn ligament and it got badly infected. As a result she didn't walk at all for 3 weeks and she's 103 pounds. Needless to say, as a total mama's girl, I had to be at her side all the time, which meant I had no chance to go to my computer. However, my computer gave up the ghost, which I might have mentioned in a previous post and I have a spanking new laptop, which is the only good news that I have.
My dog's leg problem led in turn to a cold or the flu, probably as a result of me falling with her down the four stairs to the outside of the house at 3 in the morning when it was 30 below, and no one to rescue her or me until the pain subsided enough for me to get my voice back.
Which in turn resulted in a return visit to the vet for her and a visit to the hospital for me with a badly sprained leg and bruised ribs and some sort of body whiplash from bracing myself (apparently) before I hit the ground. I never knew you could get whiplash-like symptoms from falling.
And eventually, possibly, as the result of lying in the snow in my bathrobe, my present cold or flu. I should go to the doctor but I think I'm far too sick for that, haha.
And in the meantime, at the same time, my horse barn flooded and the guy who did the trenching for me this fall was being an asshole (excuse the language, I was trying to think of a euphemism for asshole but there doesn't seem to be one) about it so I had to call Guy Number Two who discovered that an artesian well had been broken by Guy Number One.
Then my fridge went on the blink just before Christmas. Trenching Guy Number Two and the Fridge Repair Guy both showed up at the same time on the same day. Both got fixed and then the pressure pump inside the house went, which meant we had no water inside the house, drawing water as we do from an artesian well. And it is the holiday season, boo hoo hoo. Whose holiday do I spoil? I hate to bother people at times like these.
And last but not least, my brother wants a divorce from his wife. It is only a surprise in the sense that it has taken him a long time to work up to it. I won't go into details. I would appreciate prayers but in my opinion the marriage was a disaster from the start, ten years ago. Yes, God can work miracles but they are called miracles because they are rare. There are children involved and for that I am very, very sad but the marriage as it has been for so long, isn't sustainable. It would take a very big miracle along the level of the Red Sea parting to put Humpty together again, if I can mix my metaphors.
I don't know if I should be grateful the year is coming to an end or fear it. If I seem a little snippy and my humor a little black, it is because it is either laugh or cry.
I will make one comment vis a vis your post at this time, which is that you make a difference between a Christian living life as an individual and the state. However, you don't do that when it comes to issues like prayer in schools, or abortion or....?
In any event, I think capitalism is evil but will expound on that at some future date when I feel better. And yes, I do trust my government. I've noticed that Americans have a peculiar faith in their governments as evidenced by the fact that they so often refer to the US as the greatest country on earth, defender of free speech and all that democratic stuff, and yet at the same time are great believers that governments are not to be trusted in matters like gun control, health care, etc.
It seems contradictory to believe that one is living in the land of the free and home of the brave and at the same time say one does not trust one's government in terms of doing what is best for all citizens. It's like on the one hand Americans are proclaiming they live in the best country in the world, yet on the other hand they are prone to see black helicopters hovering over head, as though people run for elections in the US for primarily nefarious purposes, not altruistic ones.
See, I know there will always be a level of corruption in government, the same way I know there will always be poor people in the world. But I trust absolutely that my government wants what is best for all its citizens. It may not always be right but its aims are to provide good government and all that it means, including liberty and human rights, for all of its citizens, not just a few rich ones. The disagreements are mostly honest ones, as to how exactly one would achieve those goals.
PS. I think your definitions of communism and socialism got a little turned around. May I ask how you came by them?
Layla
My dog's leg problem led in turn to a cold or the flu, probably as a result of me falling with her down the four stairs to the outside of the house at 3 in the morning when it was 30 below, and no one to rescue her or me until the pain subsided enough for me to get my voice back.
Which in turn resulted in a return visit to the vet for her and a visit to the hospital for me with a badly sprained leg and bruised ribs and some sort of body whiplash from bracing myself (apparently) before I hit the ground. I never knew you could get whiplash-like symptoms from falling.
And eventually, possibly, as the result of lying in the snow in my bathrobe, my present cold or flu. I should go to the doctor but I think I'm far too sick for that, haha.
And in the meantime, at the same time, my horse barn flooded and the guy who did the trenching for me this fall was being an asshole (excuse the language, I was trying to think of a euphemism for asshole but there doesn't seem to be one) about it so I had to call Guy Number Two who discovered that an artesian well had been broken by Guy Number One.
Then my fridge went on the blink just before Christmas. Trenching Guy Number Two and the Fridge Repair Guy both showed up at the same time on the same day. Both got fixed and then the pressure pump inside the house went, which meant we had no water inside the house, drawing water as we do from an artesian well. And it is the holiday season, boo hoo hoo. Whose holiday do I spoil? I hate to bother people at times like these.
And last but not least, my brother wants a divorce from his wife. It is only a surprise in the sense that it has taken him a long time to work up to it. I won't go into details. I would appreciate prayers but in my opinion the marriage was a disaster from the start, ten years ago. Yes, God can work miracles but they are called miracles because they are rare. There are children involved and for that I am very, very sad but the marriage as it has been for so long, isn't sustainable. It would take a very big miracle along the level of the Red Sea parting to put Humpty together again, if I can mix my metaphors.
I don't know if I should be grateful the year is coming to an end or fear it. If I seem a little snippy and my humor a little black, it is because it is either laugh or cry.
I will make one comment vis a vis your post at this time, which is that you make a difference between a Christian living life as an individual and the state. However, you don't do that when it comes to issues like prayer in schools, or abortion or....?
In any event, I think capitalism is evil but will expound on that at some future date when I feel better. And yes, I do trust my government. I've noticed that Americans have a peculiar faith in their governments as evidenced by the fact that they so often refer to the US as the greatest country on earth, defender of free speech and all that democratic stuff, and yet at the same time are great believers that governments are not to be trusted in matters like gun control, health care, etc.
It seems contradictory to believe that one is living in the land of the free and home of the brave and at the same time say one does not trust one's government in terms of doing what is best for all citizens. It's like on the one hand Americans are proclaiming they live in the best country in the world, yet on the other hand they are prone to see black helicopters hovering over head, as though people run for elections in the US for primarily nefarious purposes, not altruistic ones.
See, I know there will always be a level of corruption in government, the same way I know there will always be poor people in the world. But I trust absolutely that my government wants what is best for all its citizens. It may not always be right but its aims are to provide good government and all that it means, including liberty and human rights, for all of its citizens, not just a few rich ones. The disagreements are mostly honest ones, as to how exactly one would achieve those goals.
PS. I think your definitions of communism and socialism got a little turned around. May I ask how you came by them?
Layla
Saturday, December 6, 2008
Capitalism anti-Christian?
Good morning! To clear up the last bits of the Prop 8 mess, we were definitely confused, because I could have sworn that you thought that I thought that Prop 8 had failed and that thus the Christians here in Cali were being persecuted. As for the state and religion - let's face it, religion and government are always in each other's pockets. That's how life works. Because both seek to tell the person on the street what is permissiable and what is not. I could go off on a major tangent about this... :) But I won't.
Capitalism is decidedly Christian - at least if you define "capitalism" as "I work for what I earn, I keep whatever I earn to spend as I choose". (I don't think that wall street is Christian, I am certain that cut-throat business practice is not Christian). Socialism is NOT Christian. Groups of Christians, particularly the early Christians, did practice Christian Communism... very briefly, because human nature isn't set up for perfect communism. (Socialism is not Communism. Communism does not involve a government, it is the place of perfection where all share everything directly. Socialism is where you are forced to give what you earn to the government, which then distributes it).
Capitalism is part of the daily life of a Christian (or Jew). 1) It allows for the blessing of God to be shown to the world at large. This is how it worked in the OT, and what Jews still believe - godly people should expect to prosper financially. (Christians expect to be provided for by God directly and expect to go through worldly travail). 2) It allows for charity. Socialism removes charity from the hands of the individual. Both Jews and Christians are commanded to care for the widows and orphans and to give generously. 3) It allows for hard work. Again, human nature... socialism doesn't inspire individuals to work hard, unless negative sanctions are made directly. (We can certainly prove this!). If you know that you'll be provided for, regardless of what you do, you do very little. Paul commanded that if a man didn't work, he shouldn't eat!
Communism works very well in very small groups that are all committed to the same goal. It worked briefly in the early church. And then it failed. Most spectacularly in the case of Ananias and Saphira. I've always been taught that they didn't die because they held back part of the purchase price, but because they lied about it.
Everything that we own belongs to God. And we are to be stewards of that which He has given to us. We are to strive for its increase and we are to give generously to all who ask of us (individuals).
WWJD? Well... Jesus will give every human his vine and his figtree, that we are all given something to work WITH! No one will have the fruits of his labor stolen from him (war). Beast and moth and corruption won't steal either. And no orphan or widow will go hungry. Jesus' economy is a gift economy.
Now... socialism depends on the government. It depends on the honesty and efficiency of the government. And it's always been a BIG government thing. Do you trust your government? I don't!!!! Do I want my government giving money to huge corporations? NO! That's not good stewardship. They *in no way* fall under any of the guidelines of who might be found need of organized charity in the Bible. I rather think they fall under the "don't work, don't eat" set of guidelines!
So, in socialism, or in what the ranters and ravers are calling socialism, I am forced to give larger sums in taxes to my government so that they in turn can use it as they see fit. (In true socialism, I'd work for the government, they would take all the fruits of my labor, and I'd be paid whatever they felt like paying me, which I would then use to purchase whatever they felt like offering).
Christians are called to open-handed charity, but I see nowhere, OT or NT, where we are called to socialism. Small groups that take good care of each other, such as the Anabaptists, aren't socialist, they're communist, and praise God that they can make it work. I don't believe that communism is possible outside a small community that knows and works with one another. And socialism is a bird of a different color entirely.
I will try to be better about checking and posting...... all the best! :) Hearth
Capitalism is decidedly Christian - at least if you define "capitalism" as "I work for what I earn, I keep whatever I earn to spend as I choose". (I don't think that wall street is Christian, I am certain that cut-throat business practice is not Christian). Socialism is NOT Christian. Groups of Christians, particularly the early Christians, did practice Christian Communism... very briefly, because human nature isn't set up for perfect communism. (Socialism is not Communism. Communism does not involve a government, it is the place of perfection where all share everything directly. Socialism is where you are forced to give what you earn to the government, which then distributes it).
Capitalism is part of the daily life of a Christian (or Jew). 1) It allows for the blessing of God to be shown to the world at large. This is how it worked in the OT, and what Jews still believe - godly people should expect to prosper financially. (Christians expect to be provided for by God directly and expect to go through worldly travail). 2) It allows for charity. Socialism removes charity from the hands of the individual. Both Jews and Christians are commanded to care for the widows and orphans and to give generously. 3) It allows for hard work. Again, human nature... socialism doesn't inspire individuals to work hard, unless negative sanctions are made directly. (We can certainly prove this!). If you know that you'll be provided for, regardless of what you do, you do very little. Paul commanded that if a man didn't work, he shouldn't eat!
Communism works very well in very small groups that are all committed to the same goal. It worked briefly in the early church. And then it failed. Most spectacularly in the case of Ananias and Saphira. I've always been taught that they didn't die because they held back part of the purchase price, but because they lied about it.
Everything that we own belongs to God. And we are to be stewards of that which He has given to us. We are to strive for its increase and we are to give generously to all who ask of us (individuals).
WWJD? Well... Jesus will give every human his vine and his figtree, that we are all given something to work WITH! No one will have the fruits of his labor stolen from him (war). Beast and moth and corruption won't steal either. And no orphan or widow will go hungry. Jesus' economy is a gift economy.
Now... socialism depends on the government. It depends on the honesty and efficiency of the government. And it's always been a BIG government thing. Do you trust your government? I don't!!!! Do I want my government giving money to huge corporations? NO! That's not good stewardship. They *in no way* fall under any of the guidelines of who might be found need of organized charity in the Bible. I rather think they fall under the "don't work, don't eat" set of guidelines!
So, in socialism, or in what the ranters and ravers are calling socialism, I am forced to give larger sums in taxes to my government so that they in turn can use it as they see fit. (In true socialism, I'd work for the government, they would take all the fruits of my labor, and I'd be paid whatever they felt like paying me, which I would then use to purchase whatever they felt like offering).
Christians are called to open-handed charity, but I see nowhere, OT or NT, where we are called to socialism. Small groups that take good care of each other, such as the Anabaptists, aren't socialist, they're communist, and praise God that they can make it work. I don't believe that communism is possible outside a small community that knows and works with one another. And socialism is a bird of a different color entirely.
I will try to be better about checking and posting...... all the best! :) Hearth
Tuesday, December 2, 2008
What Would Jesus Do?
I've been thinking about this more since the current financial crisis and the subsequent references by some to the bailout of Wall Street being "socialism."
And I've been thinking about it in relation to Obama being called a "socialist" because he talked about redistributing the wealth.
And I've been thinking about the many Christians who associate socialism with something bad.
And the popularity a few years ago with WWJD pins.
Do people think God is a capitalist? Or that Jesus was a capitalist? Or that the early Church was capitalist?
I can think of few things that one can say for sure that God, Jesus and the early Church were not, and that was capitalists.
We are told of the beliefs of the early Church and how they applied that to their day-to-day lives, presumably, with the idea that they were living a WWJD way, that they "held all things common."
Acts 4: 32: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
We also are told the theology that led to that belief, which was the whole idea of loving your neighbour as yourself. It is a belief which Anabaptist groups such as the Hutterites who live communally and take care of their own still hold.
The very definition of capitalism - an unmodified capitalism - is that selfishness is good and that if you don't succeed as the world defines success, you are "lazy." Much as Martha, for example in the NT, she of the Lazarus fame, viewed her sister Mary, who preferred to listen at Jesus' feet rather than to cook.
Capitalism does not love one's neighbour. It is in fact human selfishness, a worldly human selfishness.
Yet in all the world, there is no greater misunderstanding about socialism, "liberalism" and Marxism than in the United States. None of them equate communism and none of them speak against communism any more than the intrinsic selfishness of a capitalist system speaks against many kind and caring individuals in the US.
Given that the US is such a conservative nation, a nation so obsessed in a sense with matters of faith that politicians have to play to the Christians in order to win elections - it kind of boggles my mind that the US isn't a socialist country, a Good Samaritan country, a country that acts in a WWJD manner by not living for earthly treasure, but by sharing good fortune in a communal or socialist way as defined in Acts.
It really puzzles me why people are so against spreading the wealth, Jesus-style.
And I've been thinking about it in relation to Obama being called a "socialist" because he talked about redistributing the wealth.
And I've been thinking about the many Christians who associate socialism with something bad.
And the popularity a few years ago with WWJD pins.
Do people think God is a capitalist? Or that Jesus was a capitalist? Or that the early Church was capitalist?
I can think of few things that one can say for sure that God, Jesus and the early Church were not, and that was capitalists.
We are told of the beliefs of the early Church and how they applied that to their day-to-day lives, presumably, with the idea that they were living a WWJD way, that they "held all things common."
Acts 4: 32: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
We also are told the theology that led to that belief, which was the whole idea of loving your neighbour as yourself. It is a belief which Anabaptist groups such as the Hutterites who live communally and take care of their own still hold.
The very definition of capitalism - an unmodified capitalism - is that selfishness is good and that if you don't succeed as the world defines success, you are "lazy." Much as Martha, for example in the NT, she of the Lazarus fame, viewed her sister Mary, who preferred to listen at Jesus' feet rather than to cook.
Capitalism does not love one's neighbour. It is in fact human selfishness, a worldly human selfishness.
Yet in all the world, there is no greater misunderstanding about socialism, "liberalism" and Marxism than in the United States. None of them equate communism and none of them speak against communism any more than the intrinsic selfishness of a capitalist system speaks against many kind and caring individuals in the US.
Given that the US is such a conservative nation, a nation so obsessed in a sense with matters of faith that politicians have to play to the Christians in order to win elections - it kind of boggles my mind that the US isn't a socialist country, a Good Samaritan country, a country that acts in a WWJD manner by not living for earthly treasure, but by sharing good fortune in a communal or socialist way as defined in Acts.
It really puzzles me why people are so against spreading the wealth, Jesus-style.
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