Love and War and the Kitchen Sink

Why do I find it more than a coincidence that the verse of the day is the call for husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church? In any case, very appropriate.

As to western secular laws and Christian marriage, my only point is that western law is based on Judeo-Christian faith. All secular laws have their origins in faith which is why it's important to understand them, without necessarily agreeing with the direction they take as they increasingly deviate away from their religious origins. Sometimes, the secular side of society takes the brunt of what the faith-based society finds itself either too ignorant, or afraid to do. As an example, I would refer to the laws prohibiting cohabitation (meaning marriage) between races that existed in many states, due again to religion's influence on society and the way those Christians interpreted the verse that Christians ought not to become unequally yoked.

It isn't that the Bible isn't true - it is that people misinterpret the Bible all the time. It isn't deliberate or malicious. I have no doubt at all that many Christians who are racists, believe/d firmly that their ideas were Biblically sound based on the verse not to be unequally yoked, and because Paul advised slaves to be obedient to their masters, and because Ham was cursed by Noah to be a servant of servants.

Christians who believe/d those things were absolutely in error in the first instance, that of being unequally yoked and applying that to race, and completely in error in reading a validation of slavery into Paul's comments to slaves.

Which is the whole problem with many Bible literalists - they are too literally minded. Paul speaks to those who are in a terrible secular circumstance and offers them the comfort of Jesus. He does not validate slavery when he tells slaves to serve their masters with a smile on their face. He says not to worry about them, that the day of judgement is coming, and that the Lord knows their suffering.

Why would the same not apply to bad marriages? He tells us what is desirable, not what is possible.

On the subject of secular laws, just generally I find that very interesting in and of itself, and a kind of indirect "proof" that there is a God, since there is a Law inherent in all of us - what Immanuel Kant would call "the moral law within" that gives rise to religion which in turn gives rise to how we govern ourselves generally. We do not live in a moral vacuum, not believer nor unbeliever. Even the sociopath is aware of that inner Law even if it makes no difference to him or her.

Laws that are purely separate and have no origin in religion tend to be those that have sprung out of new knowledge that wasn't there before. Like for instance, at what point can a human being be pronounced dead. It used to be obvious. No breath, no heartbeat - boom, you're dead. Now we connect brain activity to death. No brain activity, if your breath can only be artificially maintained, then you're dead. Brain activity and no ability to breathe on your own doesn't necessarily mean death.

All of which requires religion to redefine its own definitions and where it believes the line is to be drawn in many things. Currently in Canada there is a case making headlines in Winnipeg in which an elderly Orthodox Jew who is in a semi-conscious state and is the subject of a court case and much controversy regarding just when you let someone go. So secular laws matter a very great deal as they are faith-based to begin with.

Just as a point of interest, the court forced the hospital to treat the patient, in accordance with the family's interpretation of their faith. That is interesting because the courts are clearly taking the position that freedom of faith takes precedence over everything else. It's also (not in a nasty way) been a little amusing to me based on the urban legend that people can get arrested for reading Romans 2 here.

However, I am puzzled by one thing that seems to be a contradiction in what you say when you say that "As for the laws governing Christians... well, aren't they supposed to govern committed Christians? I mean... if you loved your neighbor as yourself, wouldn't it be possible to *show* love (action verb) to your spouse, even if you no longer particularly liked them? "

Yes, Christian laws are supposed to govern Christians. Why then do Christians want to make Christian ideas into secular laws in the States? And if you love your neighbour as yourself, as a Christian, how can you go to war with the explanation that the secular responsibility to the state supersedes the Christian's responsibility to love everyone?

Okay, we've been over that enough times for it to be more of a rhetorical question. My mind just doesn't work in a straight line without connecting various thoughts. The head bone is connected to the neck bone, etc.

Layla