Same sex marriage and christians

Well, I sometimes read your other things and wonder why you don't post them here, even if some of them are reflections and such, as opposed to a debate. So feel free to reiterate your comments about same-sex marriage.

You have a point when you say that homosexuality often identifies more than a sexual orientation and indicates a life-style and people don't tend to describe themselves as gossiping drunkards whereas they might identify themselves as gay. However.

People tend to identify themselves by what they consider significant to their identities, which often includes what they feel is in some way discriminated against. It is a different thing to say, in America, "I am a man" and "I am a black man." The latter describes a history without the necessity of describing the history of the black man in America.

I do sometimes identify myself as a socialist and a pacifist, sort of depending on the situation, when I feel it will shorten a discussion, or even by-pass a discussion I don't want to have, like if I'm being introduced at a gathering of mostly political junkies, and most of them are right-wing, I might - in a self-deprecating way that is intended to let people know where they stand with me right off the bat in case they too want to avoid conflict - say something like "I'm Layla, the token socialist/pacifist."

I usually do not identify myself as a Christian, rightly or wrongly, until I know someone very, very well. In the first place "Christian" has so many interpretations that I am afraid of a born-again/evangelical/pentecostal/charismatic Christian grabbing me in a bear hug (I don't do hugs) and singing out, "Praise, Jesus!"

I had the misfortune when I was sixteen of encountering the pastor of a church that my girlfriend's boyfriend attended, at a McDonald's. I didn't know him and he didn't know me and in that overly-enthusiastic way that so many of the Charismatics I have known have, he bellowed out, "Are you a Christian?"

I wasn't sure then how to answer it, since I figured chances were good we saw eye-to-eye on nothing, but neither did I want to be placed in the position of having him proclaiming loudly to all and sundry that he would pray for me if I said I wasn't. Since I figured with him, if I didn't say yes I was, I would be placed in the "heathen" camp, which I wasn't either.

And at sixteen, I just wasn't prepared to tell a man in around forty that it wasn't his business. So I muttered, "yes" only to find myself grabbed and swung around in a bear-hug, "Praise Jesus!" He was, of course, American. We didn't have many of that type who were Canadian.

I've been very hesitant to identify myself as a Christian to people I don't know ever since. I don't do hugs, people. Sheesh. Keep your paws off my person.

I don't understand really, the part of your argument where you say you worry about having to explain it to your children. Sex is a part of life and with young children, you answer as is age appropriate and not necessarily more than they ask. Abortion is also part of modern life, whether we like it or not.

I don't know how people can explain murderers to children, or wars, or divorce or death. The hardest conversation I've ever had is with a four-year-old whose mother died and I had to explain that. It isn't enough to explain that they are "with Jesus" when they can see their mother's body in a coffin. All a four-year-old knows is that he wants his mother. It doesn't dry their tears at night.

And I don't think that just because something is legal, like same-sex marriage, that people who would otherwise have come to Jesus will suddenly not come. God is greater than that. I don't think it works that way. That's like saying that because adulterers aren't stoned anymore, then how will you explain that to your children, and that everyone will start thinking that adultery is all right and nice Christian wives and husbands will turn away from God.

They could not turn away permanently, if they were God's to begin with. That people can fall into sin, certainly I believe that. And certainly I believe that it is far better not to put yourself into a place of temptation, lest you have occasion to sin, as I believe it states somewhere in the NT. There are places no Christian belongs.

But as far as homosexuality goes, even though it isn't against the law and we've had same-sex marriage here for years, I have never felt the slightest urge towards my own sex and no law would change that or lead me into that temptation. For those who have those leanings however, no law will prevent that.

We have a domestic partners law as well, but again, I'm sort of of two minds about it. In the first place, I don't believe that marriage is a sacrament. It was given to all of humanity in the symbolic union of Adam and Eve as first parents. It wasn't something that was set apart like Holy Communion for only Christians, or Passover and dietary laws for Jews. The animal kingdom and humanity were told collectively to "be fruitful and multiply." There was no stipulation as to how many partners that implied as is shown in the OT fathers with their multiple wives.

Christianity took a turn when Jesus said, "but in the beginning it was not so." Therefore we know that when we want to know how we ought to be, we need to look at how it was in the beginning. In the beginning there was one man and one woman and that is God's ideal. But Jesus also says that God allowed certain things, like ferinstance, divorce, "because of the hardness of your hearts."

Christianity is supposed to remedy that hardness of heart and allow a man and a woman to forgive each other often enough to enable a marriage to last. But sometimes it isn't possible, since we aren't perfect. Nothing changes the ideal though, but it is, as I see it, the ideal. What is less than the ideal comes from our hardness of heart, but we aren't perfect, and I believe God understands that and forgives us for all our failings.

All are allowed to be part of a marriage, and in many cultures, "marriage" itself is little more than an agreement to live together. A ceremony and a judge wouldn't make it more or less of a marriage.

You notice that Paul doesn't take issue with multiple wives when he talks about marriage and the Christian except as it concerns pastors and other leaders in the church - that they should be married to one wife and have a good reputation.

There are people who do not take live-together relationships as seriously as marriage but I think that a live-together relationship can be every bit as committed as any ceremony performed in a legal way.

As to God's laws and the vote, yes, we differ there, because I know of no laws that God gave that apply to non-believers and of no example in the Bible where a believer is told to impose the laws that God gave the believer on the unbeliever.

Layla