Gifts post, with verses (KJV)

Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow those who believe: In my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

1 Corinthians 14: 22 Wherefore, tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not; but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them who believe.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit. For to one is given, by the Spirit, the word of wisdom; to another, the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another, faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, discerning of spirits; to another, various kinds of tongues; to another, the interpretation of tongues. But all these worketh that one and the very same Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Let’s start with the basics. Layla, I know that you are a believer in the inerrant Word of God. It’s the Bible that sets the foundation to all our conversations. Spiritual gifts aren’t just given the odd verse here and there, there are CHAPTERS about them. So, therefore, they exist. No ifs, ands, or buts – God says that He gives us gifts through the Holy Spirit, so He does.

I think one of the things that is key here is the “dividing to every man severally as he will” (my Bible doesn’t capitalize pronouns – but I’m thinking the “he” here would be the Spirit not “each man”. Otherwise we could pick our own gifts and what a mess that would be). God gives us what He wants to give us, and He gives it to us for whatever season He chooses to. Perhaps a day, perhaps a year, perhaps a lifetime. My church gets into identifying those gifts, both as a reassurance and to identify where you should be ministering and serving. I’m good at mercy and counsel – so I counsel people. I’m geeking out more and more about learning, is that the gift of knowledge? LOL. Is this conversation we’re having not being posted *as* a ministry attempt? Of course it is.

I pulled different subjects out of your last two posts and discussed them in paragraphs, I don’t think they flow particularly well from paragraph to paragraph. Sorry! :P But onward…

The popular understanding in my church is that the snakes and poison gifts were specifically given to the apostles, and are known as the apostolic gifts. Since we don’t have apostles anymore, those gifts are given only as it suits the Lord and fall under the category of miracles. I would say that the folks that drink poison and handle serpents certainly have the gift of FAITH – more than I do. (Paul had those gifts – remember the snake who bit him on that island?)

Faith as a mustard seed – well, if we had more faith, why would we *try* to move mountains? That would be mean. Not to mention kind of testing… you know if you had the faith to know you could do it, why would you do it except to test it, and if you needed to test it, you wouldn’t have that much faith. Better to plant that mustard seed and let it grow into a plant big enough that birds can sit on it (and it does, we have wild mustard on the hills here – a good wet year will see it over my head). The church of today, in the West, has about as much faith as a soggy breadcrumb. (VERY sadly, we do live in the time of the apostate church).

As for tongues, I don’t believe in a spirit-language. Tongues are given “for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not…” well, babble isn’t a sign to anyone. However, I had a pastor who said he’d once had an experience of genuine tongues – he’d been preaching in English and a few members of his audience had heard him in other languages, and grabbed their friends and said, “He’s preaching in xxx?” “No – he’s preaching in English!” Those folks didn’t speak English, but heard the sermon in their own language. Now, that qualifies as both the spirit of order and the laws of tongues, that there be someone to interpret, etc.

Do Christians have more mercy/love/kindness than non-Christians? The closer we get to the Holy Spirit, the more we see the fruits of His work in our lives. (Those are fruit as well as gifts). But it’s not a zero-sum game. We don’t all start out at the same spot on the nice-o-meter. I have a friend who is a very unpleasant person to hang out with. She’s irritating. She’s a believer, she goes to church, she has real faith. But pleasant? No. But where did she start? Oh … well, her life’s been so bad that it’s a wonder that she’s not homeless and talking to the voices in her head. She manages kindness to the people around her *even though she’s not “nice”*. Why? Because she has God. *I* am a nice person from a nice family, and I know how to play the nice game. Without God I’d still play it on the face… and be a selfish wench following my own desires in private. God knows, and He’s the only judge. (This is where we’re not supposed to be judges. You don’t judge a stranger on their walk with God).

I guess the comment about doing good things as a part of our natures might follow here. I’m glad that you live in a nice part of the world, where people still are nice. I don’t. And it’s getting worse coming up behind us. You see, folks were *taught* how to behave nicely, that it was just “something you did”. No more. Do you know that I get startled praise from shop owners because my kids say “please” and “thank you”? No, this isn’t inbred. People SUCK. The old nature is nasty and horrible, diseased at its core. YOU have a new nature, the Holy Spirit inside of you expressing His gifts of love and mercy and kindness through you. Of course you do good things. It would be against your (new) nature to do otherwise. And hey – I think that it’s great that you have kicked your old nature to the curb to the place that you don’t notice the battle. I could wish the same for myself!

Maybe that’s where the difference we are having here come down. Cultural – Mennonites don’t do self-absorbed “what am *I* good at?” things, evangelicals do. But are you gifted, my sister? Oh YES. Yes you most certainly are. J

On to the next topic, and a crunchy one. What do you think of the practice of celebrating Biblical feasts (aka Jewish) instead of the current lot that the Christian west celebrates? I’ve been reading up on Rosh Hashana in the Messianic Jewish pages (It comes next)… very interesting. I have always thought that Judaism is the most beautiful religion on the planet – ‘course it should be, since God put it together. J

Happy Saturday! :D

- Hearth