God and Prosperity

I thought I would make a few more comments with reference to your post about Oprah and to the prosperity gospel. As far as I know, Oprah doesn't claim to be a Christian, at least not a Christian in the sense that most traditional Christians would consider. I think if she has at all called herself a Christian, it would be more in a cultural, general way. So I am not bothered at all by what Oprah teaches.

What concerns me is when pastors who do lay claim to faith in Christ mislead their flocks down the way of Balaam. If you recall, in Revelations 2, when the Spirit speaks to the church in Pergamum, he says, But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

The question is what is the 'doctrine of Balaam?' As you know, Balaam was the prophet that was hired to curse Israel but instead ended up blessing them. Since he did bless them, what was his sin? The Moabites tried to hire him and he repeatedly told them that he could only say what the Spirit told him to say. And he ended up blessing them, not once but three times. In the original story there is nothing much to indicate that somehow Balaam was a really bad sinner or a bad person. Yet his name is used through the New Testament as a synonym for sin. When one reads these references, it seems that the sin was in taking money, in allowing himself to be hired at all. Clearly he had a gift. Nothing says he was a false prophet. But he took money for his prophecies, for the use of his gift. One would think that as long as he spoke the truth and only what God told him to speak, it wouldn't matter, but apparently it matters very much if you take money or offer money for a gift from God.

In Jude we read, Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

The emphasis seems to be where Jude writes that they 'ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward,' meaning money or some sort of gain. And in 2 Peter, we again find reference to the evil of money when mixed with spirituality: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. Here again we see the reference to 'wages,' meaning money.

I see nothing in the Bible to indicate at all that God thinks that the mingling of money with faith is anything but evil. From Judas and the thirty pieces of silver to Simon the Magician, every time someone tries to mingle God with money, or the blessings of God with money, God's disapproval is quick to follow.

In Acts 5, when the early church decides to hold all things in common, so that all have enough for their needs, there is ... a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

In Acts 8 we read what Peter has to say about the magician: And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.

Both man and wife die for the sin of money.

There is nothing to indicate that Simon the Magician was a particularly evil man. He was a pagan. He didn't understand that there are some things that can't be bought. It was a true error, as far as I can see, in his reasoning that he offered the apostles money for the gift of the Holy Spirit. After Peter rebukes him, Simon immediately backtracks, asking the apostles to pray for him that the sin won't be held against him.

What is the difference in those pastors who preach that if you are loved by God, that God will reward you with material things or with those who send money to various prosperity pastors, because they are told, and believe that if they give money they will get a good return on their investment? They are using God and God's gifts like a stock market.

How are those preachers not spots in our feasts and clouds without rain, as Jude says? How is the person in Bodunk, USA who sends some televangelist a hundred bucks because he believes it will be blessed into $1000 bucks, any different than Simon the Magician who thought he could buy God's Spirit?

I think that while clearly, the pastors who teach this are more culpable than their followers - shepherds are responsible for their sheep after all, I also think that there is a great moral and spiritual confusion on the part of people who want to buy God's love and favour and associate material things with the blessing of God. They too are culpable if Simon's ignorance was no excuse for his behaviour and Balaam taking money, but speaking only the words God gave him to bless Israel, is also held as an example of sin.

These are things we ought to judge, and we ought to stand up and say the emperor has no clothes on. We ought not to keep quiet because we think who are we to stand in judgement of another who claims to be a Christian. Who are we to judge? We are the children of the Highest. That's who we are. We have no obligation to judge the Oprah's of this world but to keep our own house in order. Some people don't know any better. To those we must be like Peter was to Simon, who prayed that Simon's sin of ignorance would be forgiven him. But it did not, apparently, make it less of a sin.

As the Spirit says to the Church in Ephesus, “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; that is one of the things that they did right. We are to try the spirits, whether they are of God or not. We have the moral authority via the scriptures to do so.

And as to our material wealth, we take our consolation from the words to the church in Smyrna: I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich).

Christ is our wealth, our pearl of great price. We build for ourselves a house where moths do not corrupt, nor thieves enter in. It is a contradiction to say we follow someone who said that he had no place to lay his head, and yet we believe that we are entitled to something better than our master, and a better place to lay our heads.

Layla

Baptism etc, scattered thoughts

I have always taken Matthew 7:21-22 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? to be about those who think they're Christians because their parents were Christian and because they go to a Christian church, but have no personal relationship with Christ. Those who rely on "religion" and leave out Jesus. I maintain that you can walk away from Christ and still be saved - but I know that it hurts. How to tell if someone is really a Christian or not? You have to look for fruit. If there isn't any... the best guess is "non-Christian", but only our Lord can judge hearts.
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Following Christ is hard. There's nothing anywhere in the Bible that says it will be easy. The prosperity preachers have been and always will be popular... but are they going to show up in heaven smelling smoky? People *want* to hear that if you do x, y, z you'll not only go to Heaven but have a great life down here on earth. You can always make money selling people dreams... but "God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Jim Bakker did jail time, God didn't let him off with leading astray the faithful! We live in a fallen culture - and that culture is insidious. I really do see the value in living apart, as some Mennonites/Amish do. Being called to live in the land of shiny people and not incorporate those values is incredibly difficult. Why be surprised that not only do we have preachers preaching "shiny" but that they get lots of press and popularity?
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I like your thoughts on baptism as hope, but as a properly raised Baptist I've always thought of it as a symbol of commitment to the faith, much like the Mennonites do it. (There are differences, we are encouraged to be baptised soon after we are saved, it's a public declaration, and there aren't really age-limits. Myself, I was baptised at 6 after strenuous examination by my pastor making sure I knew what I was about with salvation and all).

Samson and dedication of children... I've been interested in how the Bible claims the first born for God - not as a human sacrifice, but as a "belonging to". I think we can dedicate things to Him, and children (to some extent) although that is indeed a "hope". I don't think that's like baptism though... except maybe for infant baptism. I'd NEVER dis someone for baptising their baby, even if I don't think it serves as anything but a hope... I have children of my own that are too young yet to choose, though the elder has begun to love Jesus. (For the audience if any, they're 7 and 3 - and yes, I did say I was saved at 5, but I remember the day I "got it" - that light hasn't clicked on for him yet).
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I had some thoughts related primarily to my personal experience that dovetailed the forgiveness expected of Mennonites (which, btw, I think shows some of the finest Christian example that there is) and the cheap grace that we discussed a day or so ago. I think we have to be willing to feel the pain of the slap on the face in order to have the turning of the other cheek mean much. (It still means something - it shows the will to follow). How do you balance that in your life? How do you feel the hurt, the anger, etc etc... and not *live* there?

Apologies for such a scattered post. I keep trying to get it to mesh, but it's not happening, and I wanted to get it out there for response.